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Tuesday, August 14, 2007

Let the Trinity toll road games begin

by PegNews wire

Dallas City Council members are about to open the floodgates and order up a special referendum for Nov. 6 on whether to go ahead and build a toll road in the banks of the Trinity River. The toll road would have four total lanes and a speed limit higher than 35 mph.

In this corner, we have Council member Angela Hunt, leader of the feisty forest-dwelling underground who wear suede booties and fight with bows and arrows, and collected enough signatures (48,000 +) to send the issue to the voters to decide. Their mission: convince voters that a toll road would compromise the park.

In the other corner we have the Opposition, who are already forming the "Vote No, Save the Trinity" organization (not such a catchy title, really -- it's the comma that's at fault). Honorary chairs are Mayor Tom Leppert plus former mayors Laura Miller and Ron Kirk. That's three mayors. There'll be a big group of paid consultants, with Carol Reed and Associates coordinating, Allyn & Co. handling advertising, radio commentator Willis Johnson covering the southern sector, political consultant Brenda Reyes covering the Hispanic sector, and Becky Mayad as spokeswoman.

Posted by T.G.

Staff
Verified User
Anonymous

I have to take issue with the line in the first paragraph stating "The toll road would have four total lanes and a 35 mph speed limit." This is incorrect - the parkway, as mandated in the ordinance people will be voting on, will be restricted to 35 mph, but the toll road, as designed by NTTA et al, will be much larger and have a speed limit closer to 55 mph.

panarama99 Anonymous

2 years, 3 months ago
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panarama99, thanks for pointing this out. the story's been corrected.

Teresa Gubbins Staff

2 years, 3 months ago
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Do you think anyone will actually drive at 55? Look at the Dallas North Tollway.

Why should Dallas pay $80-something million to build a tollroad for suburbanites and therefore ruining our park?

Let them put up the money (oh and they can stop freeloading at Parkland too).

I'm sorry they chose to live so far from work. Dumb decision.

lakewooder Anonymous

2 years, 3 months ago
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I can't imagine paying to drive with the beautiful Trinity River aroma wafting through the air vents.

eastside Anonymous

2 years, 3 months ago
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Every time I see the 55mph speed limit, I chuckle a little. I think the only time anyone's going 55mph is in those three seconds before rush hour begins - right before everyone starts driving approximately 0 mph.

Pavel Lishin Verified

2 years, 3 months ago
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The TrinityVote referendum language kills the inside the levee tollway b/c to make money that tollway would have to be at least 55 mph and more than 2 lanes each way speed to justify its construction.

Michael Davis Verified

2 years, 3 months ago
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Teresa! Not all of us are "forest-dwelling underground who wear suede booties and fight with bows and arrows." Sounds like a fun secret party though. I happened to being wearing Missoni dress, half hidden by my TrinityVote tee, and Prada booties at the city council meeting this morning. I thought we were a pretty lovely group. But, I would be totally comfortable in my getup if I were forest dwelling. Problem is, not too many forests nearby.

Halz Anonymous

2 years, 3 months ago
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Halz - i am bowing to your footwear right now. let's get together and trade snapshots of our pradas. far preferable to the footwear of the Opposition party which, in my overactive imagination, consists of military jackboots

Teresa Gubbins Staff

2 years, 3 months ago
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Military jackboots? Babes, that sounds about right to me.

Halz Anonymous

2 years, 3 months ago
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Halz about this gal! EZ to see she's on top of things when she quips to TG, 'Problem is, not too many forests nearby'. Yep, there's only one; the largest urban forest in the nation with a mere 2,700 acres....the 17 miles long Great Trinity Forest.

Sure makes me put faith in her positions relative to the Trinity Vote.

(PS> Tips for forest treks: Prada footwear is like many persons seen in the corporate world: more cosmetic than functional.)

Rawlins Gilliland Verified

2 years, 3 months ago
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Here's an urban river valley for you:

http://www.ualberta.ca/~vlslab/DixonH...

vs the current Trinity plan. Note the clean air:

http://k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/ar...

DC Anonymous

2 years, 3 months ago
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Rawlins,

Can you blame anybody for not knowing about the Great Trinity Forest? The McCommas Bluff hike and bike trail and the Texas Buckeye trail are not exactly well marked or easy to find. The shame lies with our city for not maintaining and promoting these natural gems. My wife and I had something of an experience at the two trails listed above. Next time I go I will need to bring a trash bag for all of the garbage.
I tried to volunteer with a group called 'Ground Work Dallas' but they only scheduled one half day trash pick up event that I could not attend due to my schedule. I fear we will never see something like DC posted in his first link. Unless of course, Angela Hunt manages to make 14 clones of herself and replace those other idiots down at city hall.

Nathan Anonymous

2 years, 3 months ago
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You mean people prefer this (south exposure of above picture) - soccer / rugby field, Kinsmen Sports Center in middle:

http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/senate...

rather than this sort of "mixed use"

http://www.pollutionissues.com/images...

DC Anonymous

2 years, 3 months ago
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Well, (heresy here in my beloved Pegasus land) but you would be well served reading my DMN Op-Eds about the forest. I've lived for 24 years two blocks from (what became in 1998) the northwest corner of the Forest (which is the only elevated terrain adjacent to this massive forest perameters.) For that matter, I even did a 3-part series on stories from the forest that

Lucky me...I sit atop one of the 5 hills overlooking this gem, where the air is always cooler and the sky bluer above due to the foliage cleaning it. And believe me, depite it being my private world every morning of my life with my part coyote hound best friend, I gave away the keys to those Gateway Trails to the readers, who I still meet frequently..and introduce myself knowing they are only there because they read my piece(s). (Google Rawlins Gilliland...it's always #2 and has much info including access.)

Groundwork Dallas is still a great conduit for larger knowledge of what is a huge part of my daily life. Currently DART is slicing through from Scyene Road and Lawview, (SE Dallas neighborhood Parkdale) where there will be a wonderful station, only two miles due south of Samuel Tennyson Park. This is using existing railroad access and widening south through the eastern side of the forest. There will ultimately be great access to the trails at my corner of the world from this station, connecting all the way to the lovely Keeton Golf Course on Jim Miller Road. (Southeast Dallas neighborhood Piedmont).

I know, I know, this is like talking about Guatamala to most people here reading this. But considering that I am talking about INNER city DALLAS, only 3 miles south of White Rock Lake and as close to downtown as Knox-Henderson (where I grew up), whose fault is that?

Rawlins Gilliland Verified

2 years, 3 months ago
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It really is a tough call........

Nathan Anonymous

2 years, 3 months ago
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Jim Schutze has a well written piece in the Observer today relating the Trinity River Project, as an "earmark" project, to the Minneapolis bridge collapse. This small intro here may seem convoluted, but the article itself is quite good. He also pokes at the DMN. And why not?

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2007-08...

Erin Rice Verified

2 years, 3 months ago
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Dear Rawlins, Actually, my husband and I have enjoyed mountain biking at the Great Trinity Forest several times, and helped shoot a movie there several years ago. Forgive me if I had said we have NO forests, but I believe I said "not too many forests." Those crazy semantics. But it's not like like we're living in Colorado. I was really just teasing an old friend. Someone who probably knows that wearing fancy shoes can be a lot more cozy and form fitting than less fancy versions. And while I obviously wouldn't go forest hiking in them, I have walked for days all over Manhattan, and that's almost the same.

Halz Anonymous

2 years, 3 months ago
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I just hope they keep Laura Miller in the forefront. Once people in my neck of the woods see her face associated with this campaign no way we lose. Go TrinityVote!

Michael Davis Verified

2 years, 3 months ago
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Mike, I am glad to hear that you are still going to be a voice in this fight. I was worried that you might sit this out when I saw that Councilman Carraway had decided to side with Leppert and crew but you have obviously kept your integrity. I know that you fought hard for Dwaine during his campaign. As an Oak Cliff resident I am excited about some of the changes that he has proposed, especially concerning stray dogs and commerce on Lancaster Rd. His decision to back the toll road is a disappointment. Keep up the great work on Dallasprogress and give Miller/Kirk /Leppert some hell!

Nathan Anonymous

2 years, 3 months ago
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Oh that the Trinity here could ever be as beautiful as Edmonton's wonderful river valley, Hawrelak Park, the Kinsmen, etc! I've driven River Road there too many times to count, and it works just fine, thanks, at 60Km/H and 1 lane each way.

But we won't ever even get a chance to emulate such if the moneyed buffoons and the DMN's "I don't live in Dallas but I'm for the toll road" editorial hacks get their way.

They have no idea what citizen-based, participatory politics are about to be unleased on them! Tally ho!

Billusa99 Anonymous

2 years, 3 months ago
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Nathan,

Dwaine is still my man to the end. We agree 99% on stuff, just not this.

There are many issues that to me, are more important in southern Dallas than this project. Still, I feel strongly about it. Most of what I have is fatigue since I've been writing about it for so long.

I hate that everyone calls it a FIGHT to sell papers (not pegasus, but the DMN etc). It will be a spirited election.

I consider Angela a great friend of mine also. Angela was kind enough to think of me when she needed the 6 signatures to file with the city to start the petition. I remember when she first started talking about it and I feel as strong about it now as I did then. Win or lose, I'm tied to it forever.

Michael Davis Verified

2 years, 3 months ago
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One thing I've never seen mentioned in this toll road debate is the fact that when the toll road we all fully supported in some long ago 1998 election- according to everyone who writes for the DMN- is completed, gasoline will most likely be going for somewhere between 5 and 10 dollars a gallon and the toll road will just be a big, empty water funnel through the trinity river levees.

I think that if this city had any kind of actual forward looking vision, they would be building or restoring more railroads, not toll roads. My guess is the DART trains and buses are going to be pretty crowded at that point.

Is there any way we could ensure the "Save The Trinity" folks could make billions of dollars in some rail-line land flipping scheme? I think that would settle the whole thing by the end of business tomorrow and we'd get a nice downtown park.

Scott Miller Verified

2 years, 3 months ago
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Dear Halz ( and La Gubbins): Since I was with Neiman Marcus for 18 years (leaving in '99 as their Sales Director proving we all have a past) so believe me.... I've hiked New York in a pair of Prada myself. (In fact, 137 blocks one night but that's another story that takes Blue Moon on tap.) So take my sass shaken not stirred. Meanwhile, (no not lying here) I actually DID wear a pair of Prada street hikers on the trails at Cedar Creek (the old Dallas Nature Center) and they looked at the end like road kill. So let's think Timberland and meet up for some fall foliage Rawlins tours.

Rawlins Gilliland Verified

2 years, 3 months ago
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The devil wears Prada, and the devil mad him do it.

Yawn... say G'nite, Dick.

"G'nite, Dick."

Billusa99 Anonymous

2 years, 3 months ago
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Ok, so who is the most core for walking Manhattan? I throw myself in the mix for walking from NY Presby to Momofuku (ahhhh....) this past January. Actually, that probably qualifies for a 'not so much' award.

In any case, there all ready is a rail flipping scheme in place. Ed Oakley and the rest have their Woonerfs, so too late. They're all ready sticking it to you on the rail line AND the Trinity plan.

I pulled out the CDN in Bnumbers, true enough, and really, it should be clear that there is NOTHING GOOD in Canada that anyone in the US would want, no natural resources, women nor beer. With that being said, the river valley plan in Edmonton COULD be a vision for the Trinity. Of course, it would mean that we would have to ask ourselves what makes Dallasites Dallasites? Actual concern for our city and its' citizens or yet another real estate insider payoff rezoning deal? I think it's not going to take too long to declare itself.

How's everyone like my use of capitals? Just expanding a little.

Try this out: then add in your stupid toll road through the middle and see how you like it

http://exolucere.ca/photos/panoramas/...

DC Anonymous

2 years, 3 months ago
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Everybody on here that hates the concept of the tollroad inside the levees needs to get ten other people that feel the same way...then they need to get ten people and so on.

If we can just make sure that the people that signed the petition get back to the polls to vote we'll be fine.

Michael Davis Verified

2 years, 3 months ago
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It's always hip to be against a plan, anti-city hall, pro-insurection. But it is considerably more adult (and helpful) to have the alternative 'plan' to offer up in lieu of 'Say No' posturing.

Yep, that road should have been down Industrial. But years after that was considered, the price is undoubtedly prohibitive, and Industrial Blvd., once a low-end underutilized backwater conduit, is now lined with increasingly pricey real estate. And where did I get that info? In a one-on-one converstaion with Councilperson Hunt after one of the debates).

So what's the alternative? Double decking I-35? (PSSS. I've got some Garland beach property I'm sellin' cheap).

This is precisely what they mean when they talk about the entire project being threatened if not derailed by the anti-toll road 'movement'. I too admire Angela Hunt on myriad levels. But I want to hear alternative lyrics to go with her (and her diciples') song. That is hardly an odd demand.

Rawlins Gilliland Verified

2 years, 3 months ago
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Rawlins, Are you convinced that we need a new road to meet the trasportation challenges of the coming years? First, we already have several alternatives that are underutilized. Communters that want to bypass downtown between Tom Landry and Stemmons have the option of taking Loop 12 or better yet the much less used Westmoreland, Hampton Road or Canada Drive (yes Canada could use some inprovements but the others are six lanes and currently have very little traffic in west Dallas). When the DART construction is complete Harry Hines will be a great reliever route, oh and did I just mention DART?

In about 5 years we will have THREE train lines that serve this corridor! The TRE, the green line and the orange line. Collectively they will serve Parkland Hospital, DFW (major employer), Love Field, Farmers Branch, Carrolton, Irving, Los Colinas Urban Center, HEB area, and Downtown Fort Worth. These lines will REMOVE automobiles from our freeways instead of diverting them only a few blocks to the west and INTO A FLOODPLAIN. Just leaving Industrial/Irving Blvd as a well maintianed six lane city street would also help give commuters an alternative to Stemmons.

Additionally, we need more buses. If I want to take DART somewhere other than next to a Rail station. I have to take at least two buses, if not three or four. The time that it takes to transfer routs can be upwards of 40-50 minutes. I think that our city should pressure DART into shaving this wait. The money that it will take to pay for this road, before a single toll is ever collected would be well spent on increasing the size of the DART bus fleet.

What about the cars that bypass Downtown Dallas everyday? They will have to use the existing freeway, or the new freeway after Project Pegasus. Project Pegasus can be completed without a reliever route, just like Central was, just like the High 5 was, just like Fort Worth's downtown mixmaster was.

As far as the buisnesses on Irving/Industrial Blvd/S Lamar. The city has plans for that area. The new zoning is called 'Cedars West', 'Mixmaster Riverfront' and 'Old Trinity Industrial'. This rezoning process is sure to favor the newer realestate interests and none of the current businesses that occupy the area.

http://www.trinityrivercorridor.com/p...

As far as the cost? Look at the FAQ page from 'savethetrinity'.

http://savethetrinity.net/faq

Scroll down to the table and you will see that they have the Industrial options printed but do not have the price tag for the new floodplain alignment. I think that our city council mommies and daddies are lying when they say that it is 'prohibitively expensive'. I wish it were the case because then a 'Yes' vote this November would in fact 'kill' the road because this road should in fact be dead.