Friday, February 2, 2007
It’s time to get mad about Lower Greenville’s future
Updated 06:51 p.m., February 2, 2007
LOWER GREENVILLE After last Thursday's defeat of the CityVille rezoning proposal, things got kinda hot on the email and phone lines around Lower Greenville
It wasn't the vote itself - because to be honest, it was not unexpected - but it was the virulent lying and misstatements made by the residents on the west side of Lower Greenville.
It's time to get mad about Lower Greenville's future, and that means you!
Barking Dog (BD) will stop using the term Lowest Greenville West Neighborhood Association (LGWNA) to describe this group of neighbors. The original LGWNA was founded by Bill Dickerson, and many of the current residents in this faux group were part of that group.
But after Bill came out in support of the original CityVille proposal in 2002, they kicked him out and created their own phony association, with the help of Mad Maxine of course. LGNA and this group are tied at the ----.
They are not a neighborhood association. They are neighborhood thugs.
This group has maybe 10 members, does not publicize meetings to their Hispanic neighbors (which make up most of the neighborhood they claim to represent), and are a bunch of professional hypocrites. Your correspondent spent many a Crimewatch night on their side of Greenville, when they were afraid to come outside and deal with the troublemakers. He now so regrets saving their collective butts from the whizzers, drunks and parking.
This group of thugs was not happy to find their lies blogged in real-time on the Internet. BD can already see a letter coming from City Hall, telling him he can't use the free wi-fi signal anymore (if they even allow him in the building, something that has been done before).
Just hours after the vote, the thugs were demanding the head of their own Plan Commission representative for having the unmitigated chutzpah to propose a denial without prejudice so that another proposal could be submitted (it was approved 11-0).
A denial with prejudice would have meant CityVille would be stuck with an empty storefront for nearly two years before they could apply for another zoning change.
This was not a fight just about CityVille. Look up the street and you will see three acres of land where the Arcadia Theatre once stood. According to a story in the Dallas Morning News -.
Early plans call for a three- or four-story complex. Sixty residential units and about 18,000 square feet for retail shops would surround a parking garage [Cityville has 15,000 sf retail and 180 apartment units - BD].
"It's the thing to do these days – create a place where people can live and shop and eat," said Bill Hutchinson, president and CEO of the Dallas commercial real estate firm Dunhill Partners. "This is a good direction for Greenville Avenue to go."
Look across the street at Whole Foods. What's going to happen when they move to the old Minyard's location next year? Do you really think another supermarket will move in to take its place???
The fight was not about CityVille, it was about all of these developments and how we can finally see progressive uses of the area for really cool urban activities like pedestrian walkways, family-centric restaurants, cafes, furniture stores, and even - god help us - a bookstore???
Care about your neighborhood?
Here at Pegasus News, we think there's nothing more important than what happens right on your street. (Yeah, we're talking to you.) If you want to make sure your neighbors know what's happening, whether it's a garage sale, a community meeting, a car burglary, a cleanup or a home sold -- we'll help you get that information out there.
You can submit stories, photos or video from your neighborhood here.
Or, drop us a line and we'll help you decide how best to spread the word.
It was about whether we want to see Lower Greenville move forward or stay stuck in the 1990's, complete with scumbars and drunks.
We can be sure that there will be no liquor sales at these locations - no one objects to that kind of zoning restriction. But if we continue to allow restrictions on the hours a business can operate (in the case of CityVille, staying open only to 4pm), then we are going nowhere fast.
The opposing residents told anyone who would listen they would accept a third-rate trashy restaurant or even a first-class tattoo parlor in the CityVille location before they would accept something like John's Cafe, Bakers Brothers Deli (which signed a letter of intent) or even an ice-cream parlor (which they rejected last year).
BD does not have any tattoos and has no idea how much they cost, but he sincerely doubts a tattoo service would be able to afford this lease. Nor would CityVille want to lease to that kind of tenant.
The fight was between people whose vision of Lower Greenville includes tumbleweeds and empty storefronts, versus people who want a decent place to live and raise their families and shop.
All their talk about traffic and density was just much smoke and mirrors, and they know it.
They have no logical reason to stop development and change, especially when a fire guts a million-dollar building, and they know it. We just wish they knew the deep secret reasons they oppose development projects like CityVille.
Do you really think Arcadia's owners will sit back on a muddy field for years while these thugs tell them what they can and cannot do with their land?
Consider these recent accomplishments on the eastern side:
- For nearly 8 years, we have been fighting the scumbars and so-called restaurants that are just bars serving popcorn. We finally got the City to start auditing these businesses (the audits have not yet been reviewed).
- We finally got the City to start looking at the screwy parking spaces situation; no real results yet.
- We have been fighting - successfully - the noise coming off the rooftop patios every weekend during the summer. It's gonna be a little bit quieter this summer.
- We finally have real restaurants like (recently opened) Libertine Bar, Gezellig, and K-Tokyo Sushi, old-timers like Daddy Jack's, Simply Fondue, Sevan's and Nandina's; and soon, John's Cafe will be back. If we don't get more family-oriented restaurants to replace the scumbars, the good guys will pack up and move out.
And what about the thugs on the other side of the street? They hide in their bedrooms every weekend, could care less about the drunks and noise, and only come out to fight when someone wants to improve the area. Even their website has not been updated in nine months.
They won't do interviews on local news stations to explain their positions. They are afraid of being recognized by neighbors who don't know why they claim to be speaking for them.
BD may not have met a camera he did not like, but he is absolutely not afraid to be recognized on the street so people can talk to (and yes, argue) with him about the issues.
And that is what makes a neighborhood - lively, active public debate of the issues! These thugs treat you like emaciated mushrooms, keeping you in the dark and not even bothering to feed you any "information".
An Oram Street resident sent us this letter over the weekend, which absolutely nailed how many of us feel. She writes -
I'm just a simple girl trying to live in the cool world of Lower Greenville and sitting here hopeless, wondering if others like me in the future will have the same opportunity.
Who in the world constitutes the other side of Greenville that is so staunchly against having like a juice bar, an ice cream parlor or maybe a hot dog stand within walking distance of their homes in CityVille? I just cannot fathom how these people are thinking and that they prefer CityVille to remain dark and empty.
There's a great idea to ward off an increase in crime/vandalism - leave pefectly fine space dark and empty?!?!
I'm just renting while in an engagement with my male friend who has a home in Lakewood, so perhaps I am lazy. But I am interested in taking names and stirring up the pot a bit here - it's ludicrous.
I don't care all that much for big new building with bland architecture, but we got what got built in CityVille so why not garner some tenants and make the space useful.
Feel free to blast me back some links, some past discussion, etc. I've had it with these boneheads on "the other side of Greenville."
Now what?? That's easy. It's time to get organized at the most basic levels. You know the thugs and their friends in LGNA are doing it, so we need to be ready too.
And we are not talking just about development issues. We are talking about crime, noise, traffic, resident only parking, and more! During the recent CityVille debate, nearly 50 BNA-area neighbors sent letters to the City in support of CityVille. We made sure almost every property owner within the 200 foot circle of influence surveyed by the City signed their card YES for CityVille. None of this made it to the hearing due to the lack of a real debate, but they still count for next time.
And we need to be ready for the next time.
If you live within the boundaries of the Belmont Neighborhood Association (check map), then you need to join the association. Belmont NA is using the Arcadia Theatre marquee funds to pay the $2 membership dues of the first 100 new members to join starting this month.
BNA is building a network of neighbors using the Internet to support not just development issues - the ones that meet our goals - but crimewatch, Resident Only Parking initiatives (which they will also pay for) and lots more stuff.
If you live within the boundaries of the Belmont Neighborhood Association, then fill out this membership form and fax / mail it in (link here).
If you live on the west side of Lower Greenville between Belmont and Ross, McMillan and Greenville, send us your contact information (use the BD Feedback page). We will contact you when a new CityVille proposal has been presented and make sure the developers and City Hall hear from you without any thug filtering.
If you are a member of LGNA and do not agree with their support of neighborhood thugs, then you need to tell LGNA's Board of Directors. Find one of those ugly yellow flyers in the recycling bin and call every single one of them. Tell LGNA to withdraw their support of neighborhood thugs or, come election time, they might find themselves sitting in the back of the meeting room.
If you can't find the LGNA flyer, click here to send an email to the association's president, Kathryn Willison. Be polite, but be firm!
If you live within LGNA's boundaries but are not a member, then send your information to BD using the Feedback page, and we will make sure your voice is heard at the next hearing.
By the way, does anyone really know how many people are paid LGNA members??? You would think the largest (geographically) association in town would be bragging about this number. Instead, they treat it like it's some kind of state secret. Inquiring minds want to know!
The next round of debate belongs to the residents who care about the future of Lower Greenville, not the thugs and their cohorts.
This article was contributed by a member of the Pegasus News community. The original version had an incorrect link on "Mad Maxine." Avi was referring to Maxine Aaronson, the attorney for LGNA. That was an editing error on our end -- not Avi's.
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hakoop says:
I used to think this dude was crazy -- like when he posted all the weewee pictures.
But his stuff has gotten better. This is well thought out and shows how dumb Dallas city can be. Almost makes me glad I live in Messquit
Anonymous
2 years, 9 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
OldOakCliff says:
When Mr. Adelman libels his neighbors on his own site, it's one thing. But when he does it on Pagasus News, it opens you guys up to liability.
Basically what I've learned from this article is that anyone who disagrees with Mr. Adelman is a "thug," liar, and racist. Mr. Adelman claims that "lively, active public debate of the issues" is what makes a neighborhood. In Mr. Adelman's mind, this "debate" means calling anyone who disagrees with him names. If that's his definition of neighborhood, he can keep it.
Lower Greenville needs help, but it's obvious that Mr. Adelman doesn't have the temperament to be part of the solution. Pegasus News should be ambarrassed to have this (probably libelous) harangue on their site.
Anonymous
2 years, 9 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Mike Orren says:
OldOakCliff:
We appreciate your concern, but even if this piece reached the legal standard of libel (which I certainly don't believe it does), there is well-documented legal precedent that online services like Pegasus News are not liable for postings from their users, EVEN if they edit those postings.
Here's a good overview from a bloggers' perspective:
http://www.eff.org/bloggers/lg/faq-23...
But it also applies to bigger companies like Amazon and Ebay:
http://www.darknet.com/internet_regul...
In fact, the biggest test of this was a case against Amazon related to user reviews: http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/Barret...
We've written about this before, but we're probably due for a reminder:
http://blog.pegasusnews.com/2005/07/l...
So -- and this is something that all contributors, readers and commenters should bear in mind -- IF Avi had libeled anyone, that would be his responsibility under the current state of the law.
That said, if you feel the piece is incorrect or unfair, you're always welcome (and encouraged) to do as you've done and provide a counterpoint in the comments.
Staff
2 years, 9 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
John Botefuhr says:
"Live, Shop Eat." What a bunch of crap. Deep Ellum was killed by the Deep Ellum Assocoation because they were trying to turn it into some kind of "Live/Shop/Eat/New York" Crap. In the process they killed what Deep Ellum was historicaly founded on. Music, night life, and yes.... rowdiness. I am a native Dallasite, lived in L.A and several other cities. They all have their own character. Why is Mr. Adelman trying to change Lower Greenville into a "Family Oriented" area. How Quaint. Its never been one, nor should be. From at least two blocks either side of Greenville, it has always been a vibrant, mostly single, and fun nightlife area. Since they killed Deep Ellum, it may be the only area left in Dallas that has any historical nightlife identity. Embrace it! Stop trying to turn our historicaly zany areas into "Family Friendly Frisco" or worse yet, some fake Manhattanesqe/Disney sidewalk Utopia with balloons tied to all the lamposts. There are places like West Village, Southlake, and Legacy Park where you can move to for that. They can develop empty lots around Downtown or in Mckinney with those too. Great. There are so many family friendly and quaint areas for people in Dallas to live but so few areas of town where creativty flows free. Yes, there are some things on Lower Greenville that are needed. Increased Police presence? Sure. But please don't Disneyfy one of Dallas' few and dying live music, creatively funky, bar/restraunt, tatoo art, wall mural, and edgy areas left. Robert Wilonsky from the Observer has some very good views on Deep Ellum which I feel can be echoed for Lower Greenville on his interview with CBS11. http://cbs11tv.com/video/?id=15872@kt...
Verified
2 years, 9 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman says:
Looks like Mr.Johnyalamo2000 needs a geography and history lesson.
Let's look at what was on Lower Greenville just 20 years ago (a little short of forever). This is the area SOUTH of Belmont.
Do you remember 1987 - http://www.barkingdogs.org/news/node/279
I don't have a list of what was north of my area but I can remember from the time I moved here in 1980, it's been pretty much the same - Greenville Avenue Bar and Grill (closed), Terrelli's (late 80s), Blue Goose, etc
Then look at the types of business we deal with - scummy bars that claim to be restaurants versus real restaurants.
Finally, look at the numbers - 60+ bars and clubs between Belmont and Ross versus less than 30 restaurants (real food!) between Vickery and Mockingbird Lane. The Dubliner even serves food!
So to say that it's always been this way is to show you don't truly know the conditions on the ground. I suggest before you impose your desire to drink (and piss) in my neighborhood, you sit down, shut up, read a map, and then realize that most of these places you so much desire to protect should not even be open for business.
If the City ever got off its butt and enforced code, we might not be having this discussion.
Verified
2 years, 9 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman says:
Mr. OldOakCliff is sounding a lot like Ms ChiefThuggette to me.
I do not find anything libelous in my writing. Either it's fact - relating to things stated in public for example - or it's my opinion - read that very carefully.
It's my damn opinion. You can even read the consumer warnings in the site.
Blogging is just that - opinions.
Hate to beat an old line to death (again) - If you don't like my opinion, don't hold back. But don't deny my right to have one.
In the case of Ms. ChiefThuggette - she and her gang of thugs make sure that the only opinions heard at City Hall are theirs. My site is making sure that CityVille Round II will include the opinions of all those Hispanic neighbors the Thugs don't like (how do you say Hear no evil in spanish??)
I also think it's ironic that Ms. ChiefThuggette aka OldOakCliff just registred today to make her comments.
Interesting, don't you think???
Verified
2 years, 9 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
John Botefuhr says:
Well, if I have to drink and piss in your neighborhood perhaps it will help wash away your B.S. out of mine. I live in the area too Avi. But unlike you, I knew what I moved into when I came to the area. I've had plenty of people piss in front of my old apartment and now in my front yard. Yee Haa! I love the St. Patrick's Day parade which began 10 YEARS BEFORE YOU MOVED HERE!! I did not move to this area to raise a family. When I'm ready for a family, I'll do what you should do and MOVE. You should have moved somewhere else in 1980, maybe further east or up in Plano. There really is nothing more irritating than some transplant moving into the area and getting all active because they want to change it in their own image. Where did you come from prior to 1980? I remember The Clash at Arcadia, I remember Poor Davids Pub, I remember the Royal Rack and Cue, I remember sitting on my Mom's lap at shortly after the San Francisco Rose opened. I remember the old owners of The Ole Moon keeping squirrels as pets. I've been around this area allot longer than 1980 and I love that south of Belmont is an edgy, creative, if not a little scary area. It has an unsterile character that cultivates free thought. (This is probably what you would dismiss as "scummy".) I would love to see more live music venues, galleries, funky clothing shops, and sure even restruants. Nobody is saying there should not be progress. Afterall, the only certainty is change itself. But, stop trying to throw the baby out with the pisswater. There are other places in Dallas that are perfect for a "Cityville" type plan and Lower Greenville is not it. I applaud your efforts on violent crime and even parking issues, but now, more than ever Dallas needs its historicly loud, music oriented, and creative areas and Lower Greenville is one of them. If that means a little piss on the streets to deal with, then bring in a regular street sweeping program.
Verified
2 years, 9 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Blair Lovern says:
Johny, that's a great link to Wilonsky, who makes excellent points. The city has never embraced its musical history, which is a total shame.
Staff
2 years, 9 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman says:
Since my boss frowns on blogging during the workday, I will answer JohnyAlamo thusly -
I never said get rid of all the bars, just the ones that are not even supposed to be here.
Under City Code, half the places on Lower Greenville should not even be operating.
Blame it on poor enforcement, but don't take poor enforcement as an excuse to let things go downhill. That sets a bad precedent.
As for new development, not one single neighborhood group will accept allowing liquor sales in the new properties (CityVille is and always will be dry).
We want mixed use - commerical, residential, retail, and parking. We don't want - and can't ask for - all bars to go away.
But if things develop in a positive manner, their landlords may end up "losing the paperwork" when many leases expire in favor of better tenants.
And if you that it's cool for folks to piss on your house and trash it out every year (or weekend), I have no sympathy for your luck of sanitary facilities.
Verified
2 years, 9 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
dawnquiett says:
While I think the citiville stuff is a little crazy--lowest greenville was a lot worse before the bars went in Tons of nasty pawn shops and very scary bars where there were shootings or stabbings every weekend. The stuff about restaurants...it is hard to open and keep a place open. Thank god for those who try but it is not end all and be all for Greenville. I live in Lakewood across from a huge Tejano club. While I don't love the noise and the traffic from it, I deal with it. I knew it was there before I moved in.
Anonymous
2 years, 9 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
John Botefuhr says:
My boss doesn't care as long as I get the job done and I'm a good multitasker.
What people fear is big box stores and chain places in an area never known for that. Some people, especially with a financial interest, label this as "Progress." Dallas has more than its share of that crap. There is a Baker Brothers allready in Old Town. There is a BIG difference between that chain and John's Cafe. I'd take a Corner Market (McCommas/Greenville) over a Starbucks any day of the week. I'd rather have an Adairs than a Bath and Body Works because another Adairs type place is within the "character" for Lower Greenville. Its an adult oriented area and always should be. Even a nice tasteful bikini bar would fit in. More guitars, less baby strollers for the area I say.
And what is this obsession with urine? Were you pee'd on when you were a child?
Verified
2 years, 9 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman says:
I have a great boss but he does pay me to work on his websites...
Re Far West and what was there when you moved in... Please, I have heard that so many times I could puke.
I moved to Lower Greenville from Israel in 1980 (and you think this is a rough neighborhood??). This was a very shopping oriented area with maybe four bars. But does my date of arrival stop the clock anymore than the arrival of the scumbars starts a clock?
Playing the who was here first game is a waste of time and we all know it.
We are not talking about bars, we are talking about illegal uses of the retail structures. This area is zoned Community Retail and thus many of these bars are not even supposed to be here. It's time to level the playing field, but the City has no b*lls to come in and enforce ANYTHING that will bring legality to the area.
As to what you want to see here being different than my list of possible businesses, all I can say is Cool, bring it on! All I want to see are legal businesses operating within code.
Re urine - no I don't have any scatalogical issues. But there you go again condoning illegal behavior for the sake of your bars. There is no reason for a civilized adult to whiz on your house or my driveway; just because the bar bathroom was crowded at closing time is no excuse either.
If you condone that, I guess you accept the mugging of bar patrons and maybe the stealing of their cars. After all, they are asking for it, according to you, by being in a rough area of town.
Verified
2 years, 9 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
jordanne says:
Call me crazy but...I like the piss, I like the screamers from the roof top, I like the scumbars and the ppl that drink there and eat their popcorn (they are very interesting ppl and i actually havent seen anyone eating popcorn). These are all indications that this part of the city is alive and bumping in the lifestyle i like to observe and every so often take part of...or else, i wouldnt have moved here. I do not intend to have a family here, and when the time is right, I will move the hell out.
I help pass out the LGNA newsletters, I am a volunteer, and the info I have read from them is to check your smoke detectors and not use toxic cleaning stuff. This is why I opted to help, I don't see any harm in this..?? Reading this article almost made me feel bad for doing what I thought was a good deed. I don't think they are keeping secrets and if they are I dont care. There are starving children in other countries and I doubt they are contributing to their starviness.
I love my 1924 duplex, I hate the white brick clone house next door. I love the small diners with cock roaches and dirt on the floor, I feel right at home. I hate starbucks.
You can argue that the new places will be "better", but if I wanted "better" I can hop on the highway, drive for 10 mins, find the same thing. Hop on the highway, drive for 10 mins, find the same thing, etc.
This is why I moved here. I already felt at home. Not becuase I wanted to change it into my home. Ppl can look down on that and see it as shameful or whatever but this is my opinion.
Unfortunatley this is everywhere I move. I lived in Austin and they did this/ in process of doing to the drag. BOOM! Starbucks, white bricked town homes, Corner Bakery, etc.
My boyfriend lives in Denton. Fry street is next.
And now here...
Since I don't have enough energy or care to fight plowing down beautiful historical buildings...I will just move to the next hip place. I have my eyes set on Oak Cliff.
I am an avid believer in change. But it depends on what kind.
I've never trusted "code". Maybe this is because I've never trusted higher authority period. This "code" can be changed and changed and changed until ppl get what they want.
I'd rather have my cock roaches and dirt.
Anonymous
2 years, 9 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal