Wednesday, February 7, 2007
UPDATED: Does porn count as economic development for Dallas?
Updated 09:48 p.m., February 18, 2007
I have to say I was shocked when I found out that New Fine Arts would soon be a neighbor of mine. As politicians talk about economic development and bringing businesses to the so-called "Southern Sector," I didn't think that a sexually oriented business was what they had in mind. I mean UNT-Dallas - good, Executive Airport expansion - good, pornography and sex toy shop a quarter-mile from a charter school - VERY BAD.
Yet as you can see, progress is being made, and the building is going up. I was first alerted to the situation when I heard I missed a protest while I was out of town this past weekend. Me being me, I'm always up for a good protest…right. But then I was told the protest was in regards to a New Fine Arts store being built on Westmoreland near Red Bird Lane.
So on my way to work Monday, I drove down Westmoreland and there it was. A sign was posted stating that this building would be a "sexually oriented business." Question: if this building is going to have a Westmoreland address, why is the sign pointed towards the less traveled Platinum rather than the well traveled Westmoreland?
Anyway, I got out and snapped a few photos, and got back in my car to see exactly how close A.W. Brown Charter School was to this location. It was exactly 1/4 mile. I saw a mother and son walking from the bus stop and wondered what she would say a few months from now when he asks what kind of store is New Fine Arts.
Again, me being me, I called the store to see what their plans were and I was put through to the voicemail of one of their owners. Gary, called me back, and we had a discussion. Gary was pretty defensive, probably thinking I was looking for a fight, which I was not. I just wanted some info.
Gary, true to form, highlighted what he thought were positives about the project while minimizing the concerns that I raised to him. These positives would include:
- The property will be well-landscaped, well-lit and fenced in.
- They would be providing jobs to people in the community.
- Their other locations (Mockingbird near Love Field, Northwest Highway near 635) have not had an effect on the ability to rent surrounding buildings and have not affected property values.
Gary said the city (Dallas) provided a map with areas where they could locate, and this is the one they picked. When I raised a concern about the school he stated that they were a ways down the road, but did say 1/4 mile. When I said I was a neighbor within two miles, his response was "not exactly around the corner." And he said no one would even know they were there to which I responded "…oh, you're not going to have signs out front?"
But again, my problem is not with Gary, but with the City, who would allow this to business to locate so near to a good neighbor like A.W. Brown. I talked to Mike Davis at Dallas Progress about this, and he spoke to me about this among other projects getting the green light at City Hall with no one even bothering to check them out. Mike and Dwaine Caraway have been on a kick against hot-sheet motels and the influx of storage barns that seem to be the only businesses that come our way.
Someone at City Hall needs to answer for this, and for me "they followed due process," won't be enough. Every candidate for mayor as well as potential councilpersons in the South will run on a platform of improving the underserved area. Is this anybody's idea of improvement?
UPDATE: Looks like there will be a positive conclusion to the Adult Video Store fiasco in Oak Cliff. Scott Goldstein wrote a thoughtful well-researched article in Saturday's Dallas Morning News where he reported the owners of the proposed New Fine Arts were willing to leave the area. In Sunday's Morning News, Scott reports that a meeting has been scheduled between storeowners and community leaders.
This effort has shown what is a continuing trend of increasing organization in Southern Dallas. Three or four years ago, this effort may not have been pulled together so quickly. But over the course of 4 weeks, local churches, advocates, news outlets, city and state officials, as well as hard-working citizens all made contributions to what should eventually be a positive solution.
According to the articles, the owners want to be compensated for the money that they have already invested into the project. What??? They made a poor decision to move to a neighborhood without checking with the residents first, and we have to pay them off? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Had they just done a little due diligence, they would have realized a long time ago that this wasn't the time or place for this type of business. And we must pay for their lack of vision.
I'll reserve judgment until we see what happens, but this is grassroots organizing at its best. Hopefully, the same groups that came together to stop this project will come together to build something else. Protests are good, but projects are better.
The picture above on the front page of the Pegasus Metro section has a "24 hours" sign on it. He better not be planning to be open all night on Westmoreland.
Michael Davis Verified
2 years, 9 months ago
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I'd be a lot more scared that kids are going home from school and vegging out to garbage like 'American Idol' than I would be of an adult-only store moving into the neighborhood.
Do you honestly believe that all adults who purchase porn are pedophiles, or what are you trying to imply here? Schools attract pedophiles, porn stores don't. Let's just get rid of all the schools!
Do you think the store is going to sell to young people without IDing them and/or allow obviously underage kids within the fence?
Keep in mind, it will only stay in business if your 'neighbors' are making purchases, this isn't a government conspiracy - we call this 'capitalism'.
bett Anonymous
2 years, 9 months ago
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True fact: Children under 18 never see pornography, unless they're within walking distance to a pornography outlet, in which case the employees invite them in and allow them to partake. This, in turn, spoils them forever, turning them into homosexual communist Jihadists.
As far as parents explaining what it is, I think that having lived through Clinton, parents are fairly well prepared to delve into explanations of what those dangly parts of the body are for. And if not, well, I guess Dallas could always use some more sexually repressed WASPs.
Pavel Lishin Verified
2 years, 9 months ago
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Much ado about nothing. This business serves a demand in the community. If they follow the rules, they have a every right to run their business at that location.
Besides, now I won't have to drive all the way to Mockingbird Lane to buy porn.
Sam Clark Verified
2 years, 9 months ago
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"I'd be a lot more scared that kids are going home from school and vegging out to garbage like 'American Idol' than I would be of an adult-only store moving into the neighborhood."
Is that a serious statement?
Blair Lovern Staff
2 years, 9 months ago
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True story: <a href="http://www.pegasusnews.com/blogs/pegasusnewsblog/2007/jan/04/many/">When I was falsely arrested for an older namesake</a>, the way I got through it without freaking out was under the guidance of a kindly New Fine Arts employee in the intake tank who told me what was going on and how it all worked. He was a veteran -- back then at least they got bonuses for volunteering to take the obscenity rap when the cops made their regular rounds.
And Michael: That picture is of the Shiloh store. I don't know their plans, but I think they are generally 24-7.
Mike Orren Staff
2 years, 9 months ago
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"Is that a serious statement?"
Sure,
New Fine Arts: Clean outside, well lit, fenced in, and disallows all minors from entering/buying.
American Idol: Teaches kid that degrading people to their faces (or not) is funny and cool. Many contestants certainly bare more sexuality than the outside of a clean adult store.
American Idol was pretty much a quick replacement on my end for "trash TV". If people want to worry about the youth of America (in a crazy morality sense Pavel laughed at) we have a lot more problems than a locked down adult store. I personally could care less about the kids, but I'd like someone here to elaborate how New Fine Arts will harm any kids in the area before they go trying to get it removed.
bett Anonymous
2 years, 9 months ago
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bett, do you see the people who come on American Idol thinking they are the hottest thing in the world and stink?
"You don't know me! Simon is a @#$%!" Some of these people are freak shows who appear to me to have never been told no in their life, never been taught manners, never given any direction. When they're told they aren't good enough they throw a hissy fit.
You call that degrading? I call it a wake up call to get a life.
You don't have to write this sentence: "I personally could care less about the kids..." because I can tell.
Blair Lovern Staff
2 years, 9 months ago
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I completely agree with your comment. It isn't as if I'm outside right now protesting American Idol. I watch the first few episodes of the season and laugh my ass off... but this is just one of example of what we're teaching our kids, and you guys are complaining about New Fine Arts?
But this isn't about American Idol and I don't want it to be. As I said, that was just an example of "trash TV" and all the other things affecting 'our' kids that you guys don't seem to mind.
Please, to re-rail, someone explain how you think New Fine Arts will hurt local kids.
bett Anonymous
2 years, 9 months ago
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Gee, I don't know - porn shop and kids seem to go hand in hand. What have I been thinking my whole life?
Blair Lovern Staff
2 years, 9 months ago
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We should probably close down the 7-11's. They sell Playboys, and there's no age restriction for going in there. You can never be too safe with children.
Pavel Lishin Verified
2 years, 9 months ago
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For those that don't think this place is an issue:
I'm not going to put you in Planning and Land Use 101 class, but other no decent development wants to build near these types of places.
No housing development is going to want to build near this facility. No school, no shopping, no decent type of development (movie theater, supermarkets, etc) will desire to be near this place. The only things that people build next to these places are more warehouse/industrial and storage units.
When I worked for a real-estate development company, our clients did not want to be anywhere near these types of places. Whether it hurts/doesn't hurt property value may be up for debate. But it does hurt the area in more ways than one.
Westmoreland Road was improving. Several housing developments are in the works or have been completed on the south end closer to Camp Wisdom Road. Now, this puts a cap on that type of development.
Think big picture, y'all. But to those who don't give a damn, it's a free country.
Michael Davis Verified
2 years, 9 months ago
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That's a good point; I didn't think about future development.
So how do we keep the country free while letting people start businesses?
Pavel Lishin Verified
2 years, 9 months ago
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Blair, I think Pavel said it for me. Nobody is making (or even allowing) children into or around the store.
Michael, good points. I hope in the future (when we get further from this Victorian era/'publican/religious wacko fear of sex) that sort of thing changes. I'm still embarrassed to live in a state where sex toys have to be sold as novelties or else it is a crime (maybe this changed, I remember reading a story about it years ago).
I was really commenting hoping that the author would reply in regards to all of his "think of the children!" commentary in the article.
bett Anonymous
2 years, 9 months ago
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Bett, you don't have to go into the store. The fact that there is a store is bad enough.
"Hey mom, what's a porn shop?"
That's not the kind of question I want from a kid. How would you handle that? Is this the kind of thing you'd want your kid to see every day? Is this the kind of neighborhood you'd want your kids to grow up in? As Michael Davis said, you're not going to find a Toys R Us or something next to that place.
I'm all for live and let live, but that's for adults. Kids do not have the same moral bearing as an adult. You're making these comments as an adult. Kids do not have the rationale you do.
This is no Victorian era/'publican/religious wacko fear of sex. You're thinking of this from totally the wrong point of view.
Blair Lovern Staff
2 years, 9 months ago
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"It's a store that sells movies just for adults, kids don't like them."
Tada, you owe me $500 for a solving a quandary you'll have when you have children.
Or you could just teach them what sex is. Crazy, I know.
Pavel Lishin Verified
2 years, 9 months ago
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Shawn,
First of all, let me say "Great Story." I'm in your corner.
As a 73-year-old mother of a 45-year-old son and a 42-year-old daughter, I'm grateful that my children grew up in a small community where they weren't exposed to porn.
How can anyone say, "I personally don't care about the kids"? I'm surmising that you don't have children of your own and if not, I'm betting that you'll change your mind when you do have children.
I'm thankful that I have two good kids who are teaching my grandchildren the same high morals that I taught them.
Minnie Payne Staff
2 years, 9 months ago
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People are misunderstanding my not caring about the kids as me conceding that a porn store damages kids OR that not caring about people I don't know is the same thing as wanting to harm them (are you crazy?).
No, no, no and no. I've still yet to see any comments that point out how this porn store hurts children in any way. Just because I may seem rude (or even evil to some of you) does not make me magically wrong.
If you're unprepared to talk to your children about sex then I don't believe you should be a parent. As Pavel said, if they're too young (it seems that to some of you 'too young' is probably 40+) just tell them it's an adult place, just like you would for a bar or something else adult-y. If all else fails, remember that it's a free country and freely evacuate to the suburbs where you can shield your child from everything in the world until you abort them into it at 18.
bett Anonymous
2 years, 9 months ago
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"I've still yet to see any comments that point out how this porn store hurts children in any way."
bett, I'm not trying to be flippant here but if you've gotta ask that then I don't think you'll ever know.
Where do you live, by the way? City or suburbs?
Blair Lovern Staff
2 years, 9 months ago
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"If you don't know what's wrong, then I'm just not going to tell you."
k. Noted and quickly discarded.
Pavel Lishin Verified
2 years, 9 months ago
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By the way, I agree that porn could hurt children. I'm pretty sure it hurts adults by establishing unrealistic expectations that makes people puke a little when their real-life sexual partner isn't airbrushed to perfection. But a porn store in the neighborhood isn't going to start handing away free pornography to children.
So, please, for the love of god, stop making obtuse comments and rationalize your hate of naked people to me.
Pavel Lishin Verified
2 years, 9 months ago
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Charter schools don't count as far as zoning laws are concerned. They can open up anywhere, to include them in with real schools would be a disaster.
noleman Anonymous
2 years, 9 months ago
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Pavel, it's not that I'm <i>not</i> going to tell you - you can't be told. Big difference.
This discussion has nothing to do with you or your fear of Republicans or sex education or suburbs or 7-11s and Playboys (which are behind the counter and wrapped up in a store that doesn't say XXX on the front) or your amazing ability to know what's in my head when it comes to naked people or whatever roadblock you throw in the way of this discussion. That you do not care that a porn shop is popping up a few blocks away from a school is something I can't convince you is ridiculous. That's the issue.
"By the way, I agree that porn could hurt children." Really? So why set up a porn shop near a school? You seem to have a vague understanding that it can potentially be a problem, yet your argument keeps coming back to they won't be on the street handing out porn to kids. Gee, no kidding? <a href="http://www2.oprah.com/tows/slide/200511/20051130/slide_20051130_284_101.jhtml">Tell that to Kirk Franklin</a>, who wasn't handed anything on the street.
The idea that you find this shop an acceptable risk for kids (not you) is one I find bizarre.
Blair Lovern Staff
2 years, 9 months ago
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IT'S NOT A SCOOL THAT EFFECTS ZONING LAWS
noleman Anonymous
2 years, 9 months ago
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If you can't explain why it's bad for a porn store to be near a school then you must have an irrational reason to begin with. It's a cop out to say 'oh you just cannot be told!'.
There is a guns & ammo store half a mile from Clark High School in Plano. Guns are used to kill people, among other things. Where is the riot?
"'By the way, I agree that porn could hurt children.' Really? So why set up a porn shop near a school?"
He said porn could/would hurt children. How does the porn get to the children just because a store opens down the street? By that logic everyone at Clark should be shooting each other.
Also, I'm pretty sure New Fine Arts are always 'blank'-ish outside and only say 'New Fine Arts'. No red neons saying XXX or anything.
bett Anonymous
2 years, 9 months ago
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"How does the porn get to the children just because a store opens down the street?"
<a href="http://www2.oprah.com/tows/slide/200511/20051130/slide_20051130_284_101.jhtml">Did you not read this link?</a> That's Way #1. Makes it a lot easier for stuff to get to kids when it's in the neighborhood, than if the store is, say, two counties away. You assume this will never happen. Again, I do not know myself, but I'd rather a community not assume the risk. You don't care if there is a risk, and this is the principle reason I can't explain why it would be bad, because it never enters your head that it could be bad for kids in the first place because porn will never reach them. Congrats on knowing this before anyone else.
Regarding the gun store analogy, those businesses usually don't depress a neighborhood <a href="http://nopornnorthampton.org/2006/10/18/nyc-porn-shops-depress-demand-for-neighboring-properties.aspx">like porn shops</a>. Guns are also usually reserved for uses other than, ah, self-gratification, and as far as I know, it's difficult to get addicted to staring at a .357.
Blair Lovern Staff
2 years, 9 months ago
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I followed the Oprah (ugh) link. People get addicted to all kinds of things, up to and including shooting guns, I'm sure. People certainly get addicted to drinking and smoking, do you propose we also ban alcohol and tobacco? (Both can hurt children, too, by the way) Where is the line drawn? Let's get rid of all the sharp corners in the world, too!
So if we move the porn stores two counties away, uh, what about the kids living there? Why does the porn store have to move and not the gun & tobacco outlets? Where is the line drawn?
I'm not arguing for porn here, I'm arguing for freedom. If we start with one thing where does it end? Consenting adults shouldn't suffer because people are unable to take care of and properly inform their children. After porn it will be something else, and something else...
Where is the line drawn?
And with that, I'm through. I wish Shawn would have commented.
bett Anonymous
2 years, 9 months ago
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When Sir Walter Raleigh went back to England from Jamestown he took shipments of tobacco, not a boatload of <i>Naughty Knave</i> magazines. Despite their abuse, there's a reason tobacco and alcohol use, for example, have been accepted public habits for thousands of years, and not, say, hardcore sex.
To lump everything with everything else and put it in your Freedom Corner and say no one else can touch it is nonsense.
You can say all you want "I'm not arguing for porn." But if you do not condemn a porn shop near a school, you are in fact arguing for it because you do nothing to stop it, except hope that some parent may tell his kid don't go there. And if they don't tell a kid to not go there, then that's their tough luck - I want my porn freedom! and I don't care who else gets the stuff as long as I'm not bothered, and if the neighborhood goes to hell because no one cares about anything except some abstract freedom that has no boundaries because we can't draw a line anywhere because that would affect me, well that ain't my fault.
It's hard to think of a more selfish position than this.
Blair Lovern Staff
2 years, 9 months ago
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The fact that I haven't commented so far is part of the problem. I live in Oak Cliff, moved there because I wanted to be part of the solution rather than throwing stones from the suburbs.
I haven't been able to comment on my own story because my Time Warner Cable internet service goes out at least four or five times a week. As a matter of fact, I had to go to the Oak Lawn Library on Cedar Springs (not that there's anything wrong with that), just to write the original post. Now I'm in Paris, Texas where my mom has DSL.
While the city is busy giving us porn in the O.C., DSL is not even available in my area. Yes in DALLAS, TEXAS, U.S.A., AT&T doesn't even offer DSL because "we live more than 2-3 miles from a hub location." Are you kidding me? Show me the Highland Park/University Park/Coppell resident who doesn't have access to DSL. They may exist, but I don't believe that they do.
So I would have loved to get in on the discussion of the Boston Tea Party and all that, but I just want a decent broadband connection.
Dallas should not only give people what they want but what they need. Many people who have commented on this post, people in this city, even folks in the ACLU would fight harder for Gary's right to put a porn store by a school than for my wife's right to submit her online nursing school course work via the world wide web - or my right to blog.
As you probably realized, I needed to get that off my chest. This has been a nightmare for us, but at least in a couple of months we'll be able to catch a flick or two at New Fine Arts. Thanks Dallas!!!!
Shawn Williams Verified
2 years, 9 months ago
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"...let's lay down broadband lines through the heart of inner cities and rural towns all across American...we can do that."
Sen. Barack Obama announcing candidacy for President of the United States
Shawn Williams Verified
2 years, 9 months ago
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Shawn, what you are now talking about are those practical issues that can effect daily lives. I agree, broadband availability is an important one.
I know we are getting way off topic from your original post, but here is another practical every-day issue that needs more attention in Dallas are the bus routes. Sure, you can go from Uptown to Mockingbird station without any problems. But lets say you live at Webb Chapel and Forest and you work around Webb Chapel and Central Expressway. You have to ride all the way downtown, and then come all the way back. Thats a lot of inconvenience at the beginning and end of every day. Its a small issue, but one that can have a major impact on peoples' everyday lives. Just as access to broadband could as well.
Alan Cohen Staff
2 years, 9 months ago
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Alan it's all about access. Everyone should have equal ACCESS and everyone should have equal PROTECTION under the law.
The folks in N. Dallas and their reps have found a way to protect themselves from the likes of New Fine Arts. Access on bus lines are not a priority because the people who use buses are not a priority, therefore they won't be protected. DART is much more interested in making sure they can stretch rail lines to the Red River than they are with fixing the bus system.
Shawn Williams Verified
2 years, 9 months ago
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When all the kids get home to their new broadband access they won't have to wait so long for the porn to download. Probably less time than walking up the street to the New Fine Arts. As for Toys R Us, isn't there one just up the street by the mall?
David Goodspeed Verified
2 years, 9 months ago
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Maybe the Toys 'R' Us and this New Fine Arts should set up shop together. They both sell toys, after all.
Chad Jones Verified
2 years, 9 months ago
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Eleven days later: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedconte...
Mike Orren Staff
2 years, 9 months ago
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What exactly is "very bad", Shawn? Sounds like another poorly thought out, knee-jerk reaction to a viable business. Most sex stores have an "18 and older" policy so a child would not even make it past the front door. Furthermore, most sex stores are not the haven for deviants that you obviously imagine. Nowadays, most are designed for couples and could even be described as "tasteful." Perhaps you need a trip to the toy shop yourself to drop that outdated mode of thinking.
Sextoylover Anonymous
11 months ago
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It's cute that you've graced us with your amorous presence, but do you realize this thread is almost 2 years old?
Scott Doyle Verified
11 months ago
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The bordum of an Amercian lifestyle, and a lot of adults will not admit to such, creates vice, addiction and if you observe that is is good business to run such,... it aint, because it is not natural,and besides, lust is not love it is concession when turned into manpulation....A/T. love is light, lust is concession.
alexander troup Verified
11 months ago
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