Saturday, June 9, 2007
City of Dallas opens its first skate park at Lakeland Hills Park
Neighborhood kids have a blast while hard-core skaters grouse
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Lakeland Hills skate park grand opening
Grand opening celebration for Dallas' first public skate park.
Skatewave was marketing itself as the manufacturer of the skate park accouterments. Pegasus News regulars "eastside" and wife at top left.
Enlarge photo | View thumbnailsWHITE ROCK HILLS — Last week I previewed the opening of the new Dallas skate park opening in my neighborhood. It was a pretty vanilla story, and didn't get much juice until the local skating community got ahold of it.
It seems that there's a contingent of local skaters who think that any skate park that isn't an island of concrete perfection is an affront to humanity. But I'll get back to that later.
The grand opening featured the Parks and Recreation staff and the local community leaders who worked to bring the skating facility to Lakeland Hills.
It turns out that a recent report on local parks that were substandard featured Lakeland Hills on its cover. Susan Walker and other community leaders spoke at the dedication ceremony, underscoring the role of neighborhood leaders in drawing the skate park to Lakeland Hills. It was clear that the children who would enjoy the park owed a huge debt to neighborhood leaders who would never shred, no matter what.
The park was constructed by Skatewave, a Minneapolis-based company that has a long and checkered history in the construction of municipal skate parks. They are clearly a very popular choice for municipal parks, but have also taken much criticism from die-hard skaters over the years.
The low point for Skatewave was a 2003 park in Hawaii that quickly rusted and got a .5 star rating from local skaters.
I spoke to Greg Hawkins, the sales manager for Recreation Consultants of Texas, the company that represents Skatewave and its parent company, Landscape Structures in the DFW area. "The criticism, to be honest, made sense three or five years ago," he said. "There have been great advances in the materials used in these sorts of parks."
"Concrete parks are great," he said when I asked him about criticisms raised on our site. "We represent concrete and modular providers. Different ones make sense in different situations."
The Lakeland Hills park was designed by professional skater Dorian Tucker.
"The criticisms probably made sense three or five years ago," he said. "But the technology has advanced since them." Hawkins says that Skatewave's product has a 15-year warrantee. It is made of a "super-durable, sound-dampened, corrosion- resistant. Low-maintenance, textured powdercoat steel surface with the perfect balance of slip and grip." Hawkins also says that the park components have anti-graffiti properties.
Hawkins defends the Skatewave parks by pointing out that he represents both modular and concrete providers. "Different setups make sense in different situations," he says. "I love concrete parks, and as a skater, that's what I grew up on."
Hawkins also concedes that a central, "destination" park is a goal. "This park is a test," he said. "Once the City understands what it takes to keep a place like this up, they'll advance." Hawkins said that if this park proves manageable, others will follow, including a planned destination concrete park in the center city by 2009.
The other major player in the space is a company called SiteDesign. They built the parks our users cite in Austin, Allen and Irving.
In the end, to a non-skater like me, modular vs. concrete sounds like a religious issue. There is no clear resolution.
Serious skaters seem to eschew these parks. But at the same time, I drove back by the Lakeland Hills park late this afternoon and saw no less than twenty kids happily skating about.
As I said before the festivities today, this park is more about the neighborhood than it is about skating. But I still hope that it will enhance skating in our city.
Mike lives in the neighborhood near Lakeland Hills and is an active member of the group that advocated the park's location. He was not actively involved in that effort.
Comments
TWeller Anonymous
Perhaps we should just post some of the comments from the other thread over here! This "thing" is the most obnoxious waste my of my tax payer money I have ever seen . Good God have any of you seen Allen or Irving!!!! This thing is a disgrace & a waste of my Taxes!!!!!!!! These people obviously have a back door into the Council . I will be withholding my property taxes next year!!!!
1 year, 4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
TWeller Anonymous
"It seems that there's a contingent of local skaters who think that any skate park that isn't an island of concrete perfection is an affront to humanity. But I'll get back to that later. Thanx for the support !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have to wonder if you even live in the area & if so why you are not as P@#ssed as I am
1 year, 4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
TWeller Anonymous
the mini ramp does not have enough flat bottom & the metal was close to being too hot to touch. Not being a street skater I cant comment on some of the other things,but the level of enthusiasm there was pretty low. How this can be a"beta test" is beond me, I certainly will not be returning nor I think will anyone with the means to go elsewhere. It seems to be a case of "nice try but no cigar" Yours Tracy Weller (Lakewood resident for 10+years)
1 year, 4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Greg Stubbs Verified
Mr. Orren,
I must commend you for your's and your counterparts with the city of Dallas on a very successful turnout today at the grand opening. I'm sorry I did not get to meet with you in person since you gave me so much coverage....
http://www.pegasusnews.com/photos/gal...
http://www.pegasusnews.com/photos/gal...
Thanks! Those kids were having a blast and they were pretty much the only reason I stayed out in that hot sun as long as I did.
First let me address the photos and their captions as one is correct and one is incorrect. The first photo's caption reads "This guy was clearly a local pro who was taking it a little easy." I am a local but not a professional skateboarder. I grew up on skateboard just as someone may have grown up on a bike.
As for the second photo, it's caption reads "Sharing knowledge." and it is absolutely correct. Those two kids didn't have a board and they were having too much fun on mine. So I hung around a while and let them have their fun.
Those kids had a blast and it was fun watching them have a blast. That's what skateboarding is all about and nothing else, just having fun. But as you probably noticed it was pretty crowded out there and pretty dangerous for me or anyone to be going too fast.
Again, I applaud the city and this local community for taking the action to get a skatepark built.
I was shocked tonight as I watched the WB33 9:00 news to see myself being interviewed. If you didn't see it, my comments echo what I have so far stated in this post.
But it wasn't so much seeing my ugly mug on the Dallas evening news that shocked me. No, no, no, no, no.....It was some of the information I gained from the broadcast itself....
"Just over $250,000 tax payer dollars were spent on the skatepark."
I was stunned as I still am. If this is correct, let me explain that for this amount I personally could have built two concrete, in-ground parks for that very same price. Me...personally. I truly hope the equipment purchased from the equipment manufacturer is maintained. I didn't see if bikes were permitted or not but you won't keep them out even if they are not allowed. But for just over a quarter million, that community could have easily had what the cities of Allen and Irving now proudly display. Professional skateboarders would have made it a stop on their tours, kids would meet them, get to see them skate and maybe even get a free board or two. Who knows, if they had a concrete park, or a "destination" park as some are calling them, they might have been able to get noticed and get some sponsors lined up. That's just one way the kids in that community could have been served with a better park.
I want the very best for those kids and every other skateboarder in my community of Dallas and every community in Texas. I want those young kids to add to the great legacy that is Texas skateboarding, probably something that you and most other Texans know absolutely nothing about. There are guys that hail from this state that should have statues in place in all their hometowns. Their contributions are unsurpassed in the world of skateboarding and I'm going to take the time to mention several of them now:
Jeff Phillips (R.I.P.) - Dallas
Craig Johnson - Dallas
John TEX Gibson - Houston
Dan Wilkes - Dallas
Bryan Pennington - Houston
Mike Crum - Dallas
John Comer - Dallas
I could go on and on and I'm going to take some flak from my friends for leaving out their favorite Texan skateboarder but those names I listed all put Texas skateboarding on the map. We have a rich tradition of great skateboarding in this state and I want the same opportunity for Texas kids to be a pro skateboarder from Texas just like the Texans I listed above. A couple of weeks ago Jake Kirby of Midland, Texas competed in a concrete skatepark contest in California and won 1st place. Jake is 12 and beat a lot of good Calfornia skaters, something he would never have been able to accomplish had he not had a great concrete park in which to get so good. Build great skateparks and they will produce great skaters. That is not going to happen skating the local SkateWave prefab park.
I want the very best opportunity for the kids I was helping learn to skate today as I want for my own kid. I want them to have the best equipment (helmets, skateboards, etc) and would love to work with you and your community in getting all of the kids that maybe don't have the means to buy a skateboard to have one of their own. But most of all I want them to have great skateparks to skate. Those kids today were asking me to give them lessons. They were hungry to learn to skateboard. Why can't they be the next Tony Hawk or Bob Burnquist or Kareem Cambell? They can be if given the opportunity on a consistant basis to skate challenging terrain. The skatepark they have now will serve them for a time but they need to be able to get better and improve and skate more challenging terrain. Terrain they want to skate but challenging.
The big rave today with kids seems to be that they want a replica of the Rob Dyrdek Skate Plaza that professional skateboarder Rob Dyrdek built for his community in Ohio where he grew up. It happens to be a concrete skate plaza with concrete benches, concrete ledges, concrete stairs, concrete banks along with some handrails on which to "grind" upon. THAT could have easily been built two times over for these very kids with the funds used to build this park and probably WITH a shade canopy (Dang, it was hot and the surface of that prefab was even hotter!!!). It looks perfect right next to the playground equipment, too.
As for not being involved until now? Mr. Orren, my friends and I have been talking to the city for over 7 years now. 7 years....and about concrete skateparks. When I see the city spending that kind of money on prefab stuff, I'm astounded. Everything has fallen on deaf ears and, in my opinion, my tax dollars are not satisfying me in the parks and rec dept when spending those kinds of dollars on bad skateparks that will not be around forever. It's high time the city of Dallas recognize skateboarding and step up to the plate and build world class skateparks. Texas sized skateparks.
If the city plans to spend $250,000 on 6 or 7 more of these it won't be without opposition. I'll be examining the wording in the bond packages that are apparently paying for this skatepark closely and vehemently oppose any further pre-fab playground equipment being called a "skatepark" or being built.
If you have not been to Allen or Irving, please go check them out.
Thanks again for the city finally building a municipal skatepark. We have a lot of ground to make up and I will be attending all parks and rec planning meetings from here on out to insure that our Dallas tax dollars are getting the biggest bang for their buck and serving all of Dallas' skateboarding community as opposed to just a small portion.
1 year, 4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
M_Laird Anonymous
Another Texas boondoggle: $250,000.00 for these sub-standard, unfunctional little ramps??? This is an outrage.
Whereas the Dallas Parks & Recreation Dept. is to be commended for addressing, and acting on, what was a complete lack of designated area for skateboarding in the City of Dallas, it is obvious that in this instance the taxpayers and their children were CHEATED by the manufacturer (SKATEWAVE). The Lakeland Hills facility is a "skatepark" in name only. It's AWFUL.
Greg Hawkins, sales manager for the company that owns Skatewave, is unable to address community criticism of the sub-standard product that his firm delivered to the citizens of Dallas. Furthermore, he is unable to state ON THE RECORD that the aforementioned bunch of little ramps is actually worth TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.
I've been skating ramps and concrete skateparks since 1977. I'm not against ramps: I skate them all the time. I'm against puny, inferior, SUB-STANDARD RAMPS that are are HORRENDOUSLY OVERPRICED. If the City of Dallas wanted to spend $250,000 on ramps, they could have built a COLOSSAL ARRAY of interesting and challanging structures, including HUGE DEEP COMPETITION BOWLS, and the result would have cost the same amount of money (or less!) if they would have gone with a reputable contractor.
The goal of the Parks & Recreation Department is to BRING THE CITIZENS INTO THE PARKS. With skateparks, presumably the goal is the same. Unfortunately with the Lakeland Hills facility there will be PRECIOUS FEW individuals who would ever go out of their way to skate there. It's too bad that the kids in the Landland Hills neighborhood are stuck with the one SKATEWAVE built. SKATEWAVE cheated these young people with their horrendously overpriced cookie-cutter pre-fab ramps. Who can blame these kids if they go back to skating in the street?
My second question: How could the Pegasus News reporter immediately discover that SKATEWAVE has received the WORST possible reviews among actual skaterboarders nationwide, whereas the Dallas Parks & Recreation Department could not? How -- and why -- did SKATEWAVE receive the contract?
Skatewave's own [ANONYMOUS] but totally transparent postings on the Pegasus News forum were obviously written by Skatewave's P.R. reps. Their attemps to justify their product with invented claims like "This park ROCKS," shows how despicable and desperate they really are. At first they tried to suggest that the Lakeland Hills facility "ROCKS" -- now, after receiving backlash, and demands for accountability, from the community, they are claiming that Lakeland Hills was never designed to be "a destination park" and that in fact it was actually "a test."
I think the results of the test are in. It is my sincere hope that the Dallas Parks & Recreation Department understands that NEXT TIME it doesn't have to be this way, and that we can utilize the experience to create a skatepark that will MAKE TEXAS PROUD, rathan than make the City of Dallas embarrassed.
Signed,
M. Laird
1 year, 4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Mike Orren Staff
Some comparison points:
The Irving skatepark cost $625k. http://bulldog.ci.irving.tx.us/Daily/...
Concrete and looks much bigger. http://www.ci.irving.tx.us/parks_and_...
Grand Prairie's park cost $1.2 million: http://www.gocitykids.com/browse/attr...
Again, much more expansive: http://www.skateboardparks.com/texas/...
Couldn't find a price on Allen's park, but it looks to be the biggest and most expansive.
Anybody got an example of a concrete park the size/scope of Lakeland Hills? I'd be interested in the comparison.
1 year, 4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Greg Stubbs Verified
Hondo, Texas just finished a concrete, maintainance free park for $50,000.
Smithville, Texas has one that was built for under $100,000 that is also concrete.
Both of these parks are larger than the Lakeland Hills park and much easier to ride, especially for a beginner.
The slab of concrete upon which the new Dallas parks sits had to cost somewhere in the vicinity of $50,000 - $60,000 alone, just for that flat piece of concrete. Add in the fence work and the prefab stuff I'm figuring the Lakeland Hills skateboard portion of the park upgrade was well over $100,000. I'm hoping the channel 33 newscast was mistaken in their story stating that "Over a quarter million dollars was spent on the skatepark." I am hoping that out of that $250,000 some of that was spent on the surrounding sidewalks and the non-skateboard playground equipment. I can't imagine how in the world anyone could pay "over a quarter million dollars" for a slab of concrete and some temporary ramps.
That is a rip off and it short changes the skateboarders in that community and the rest of the city.
There are more than just these two examples of concrete parks being built for cheap around the country, Mr. Orren. What happened in the Lakeland Hills skatepark situation is a playground equipment company that already had ties to the city from selling them playground equipment got a sweet deal by playing on the ignorance of the community about what was available to them.
2009 is too far off for a concrete park in Dallas. If there are more tax payer dollars going to towards skateparks in the city of Dallas there had best be a bid process open to more than just playground equipment companies. There are Texas owned concrete skateboard park companies that can do the work keeping the money in state and not going to a company outside of the state. Texas skateparks built by Texans for Texans, not some plastic ramp manufacturer form Minnesota.
Do you think it might be possible, Mr. Orren, to find and post up the breakdown of cost to the city of Dallas for the Lakeland Hills park. That is one figure that is absent from your latest post.
1 year, 4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
WTF Anonymous
Hondo's concrete skate park is 5000 sqft and costs the city 43,000 dollars. The new concrete street addition to Round Rock is a 8000 sqft area built for under 150,000 dollars. The truth is an excellent concrete skatepark can be built under 100,000 dollars.
However, companies like Skatewave will tell cities the opposite, and often refer to a concrete skatepark as an "in-ground" park. Which leads city officials to believe that all concrete skateparks are huge 12ft deep bowls. This is not the case. An excellent above ground concrete park can be built under a 100,000 dollars, and it is much lower maintenance than a modular park.
In the article, Skatewave sales manager Greg Hawkins states, "The criticism, to be honest, made sense three or five years ago....there have been great advances in the materials used in these sorts of parks."
This is absolutely untrue. The skateparks they built 4 or 5 years ago are still sitting in city parks. Many of them are in terrible conditions with sinking panels, protruding screws, rusting, warped kick plates and sinking platforms. Therefore, Skatewave's poor design and engineering is affecting skaters on a daily basis.
Greg Hawkins also stated,"Skatewave's product has a 15-year warrantee. It is made of a super-durable, sound-dampened, corrosion- resistant. Low-maintenance, textured powdercoat steel surface with the perfect balance of slip and grip."
The truth is Skatewave only warrants defects. However, they do not warrant wear and tear, and this is what affects most cities and skaters. When the ramps fall apart the skaters pay in injuries and the cities pay for the maintenance.
Luckily, cities are starting to replace their failing modular parks with concrete skateparks. This summer New Braunfels will be demoing their failed Skatewave Park and building concrete skate plaza.
Hopefully, Dallas will do some research on their next skate park project and no longer use a "playground vendor" that calls themselves a "skatepark builder".
1 year, 4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Greg Stubbs Verified
SkateWave banked ramp, El Paso Boys Club. Love to run into this at speed. Sheesh! Warranty does not cover this damage so Skatewave does not have to come out and fix it so they haven't. SkateWave has their money, though, and the skaters don't have anything to skate.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25...
New Braunfels modular ramp damage. N.B. is tearing down their modular park this summer to replace it with a permanent, maintainence free concrete park that skaters will actually skate. This one currently sits empty on a daily basis...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25...
This looks like a lot of fun, especially when you hit it and you get tossed from your board....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25...
1 year, 4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Michael Davis Verified
I haven't been to the park. And I don't know what's a good skate ramp. But you all need to have your voices heard.
Once the new council comes in, a lot of the park board will be different. At that time, you all should come to the council or park board meeting and present your findings and info. Once LaMiller is out, we should be able to fix this.
Though I know little about skating, I will do my best to help. The park board will turn over many seats, which should help your cause. We can't afford for anybody to get hurt.
To Mike O: is this park in District 7 or 9?
1 year, 4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Mike Orren Staff
Greg: As to the actual budget for the park, I intend to get it, but that's the sort of thing that's hard to get over the weekend. I'm going to try to get it Monday-Tuesday, but be aware that we're a bit of a skeleton crew over here, so these things occasionally take a couple days.
Those photos look pretty grim. How old are those parks?
WTF: One thing I should have made clearer.
"The criticisms probably made sense three or five years ago," he said. "But the technology has advanced since them."
Was a direct quote from Greg Hawkins. BUT
It is made of a "super-durable, sound-dampened, corrosion- resistant. Low-maintenance, textured powdercoat steel surface with the perfect balance of slip and grip."
Quotes Skatewave sales materials.
Mike: Should be District 7. I know Leo Chanehy was involved in working with the neighborhood leaders to get the park improvements made.
1 year, 4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Greg Stubbs Verified
Mike
I know the El Paso Boys Club and the New Braunfels pictures are recent, I am unsure about the other. Still, what does it matter if they are 5 months or 5 years old? THAT is wear and tear damage and not covered under the warranty.
1 year, 4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Mike Orren Staff
Greg, I wasn't asking about the age of the picture, but about the age of the parks themselves. I'm trying to understand how long it takes this sort of damage to occur.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
TWeller Anonymous
Another little factoid that I learned today,there was a private individuall willing to put up 1.5 Mil. for a park in Dallas ,but because the Parks & Rec. people could not get their act together & pick a site, he has since backed out! Thanx Dallas!
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
STATMAN Anonymous
Once again the city of Dallas has stepped or rather jumped into yet another big old pile of it. Arlington is getting the Super Bowl and Dallas gets this. It’s not unexpected given the city’s long and colorful track record. Not only am I a consultant that works with cities and private groups with an interest in skate park construction and design but I been Skating for most of the last Thirty-two years. I’ve seen quite a bit of both sides of this prefab vs. permanent skate park debate. There are arguments that can be made to support ether side but in the long run the prefab marketing machine has a much louder voice with most City P&R purchasing agents than do the people who will actually be using these parks.
I have over the past ten years seen these prefab builders make some rather interesting clams and guaranties about there products. Always be suspicious of a company that’s willing to offer a long-term warranty on something that they consider an experimental product line. What are those cities supposed to do about worthless warranties on existing prefab parks when the company that built the park product no longer exists? Or in the case of Skatewave, doesn’t consider wear and tear part of that fifteen-year warranty. In my book that’s not a warranty at all. I would compare this to a Health Insurance policy that only provides coverage for healthy individuals but doesn’t cover sickness or injury but that seems to be the way most insurance companies are headed, but that’s another issue. I guess the biggest negative that can be put up against the prefab marketers is their own use of misleading or just outright falls sales tactics. I was attending a Parks and Rec. conference a few years ago listening to the various companies presented their new product lines. The head of sales for one company gave a speech in which he described his product to city Parks and Rec. officials like this “We are offering you a FINAL SOLUTION to your skate park problem.” It sounded a little late 30’s German to me.
It is my personal opinion that these prefab parks are at best a stopgap measure to allow a city to have a temporary skate park until funding for a real park can be acquired, and at worst they represent a cities lack of trust and commitment of and to the citizens and this community.
Good luck Dallas you foolish old gall.
http://www.skateoregon.com/Newberg/Ne...
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
STATMAN Anonymous
http://www.skateoregon.com/PortOrford...
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
WTF Anonymous
Mike,
The New Braunfels park is about three years old. Ill find out about the El Paso Boys Club.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
eastside Anonymous
wow this is a hot topic.. I heard their putting the gondolas back in fair park?? anyone wanna discuss what how much this cost?
j/k I thought I would throw in a curve ball
I would think that since this park is a test, and the kids like it. the future parks will be an improvement from this prototype.
just my .02 worth
btw was it burleson that just got their first disc golf course? at least we have more of those then they do!
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Lisa Lawrence Merritt Verified
So when Is Dallas going to open it's sculling facility on the Trinity?
(Kinda like punting on the Thames)
LLM~
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Lisa Lawrence Merritt Verified
Or is it the Cam? I forget.
;)LLM
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
STATMAN Anonymous
Eastside this park isn't a prototype this is what all skatewave parks would be like..
Tingthing the city of Dallas already has a sculling facility. This skate park is the equivelent to moving that sculling facility to the fountain in front of city hall.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Peter_Whitley Anonymous
I think it's great that skateboarders are so invested in the outcome of their recreational facilities. It's testimony to the passion and commitment typical of skaters.
The test of a skatepark is more complex than whether it is being used. With skaters everywhere starved for terrain, any skatepark will be used regardless of its design and construction. In my neck of the woods there are janky, 12-year-old skateparks that are a travesty to practical design and construction principles...dangerous and awful...that are still regularly used all day long.
If a starving person eats a rotten piece of meat it does not mean that person enjoys rotten meat. It means that person is so desperate for something to eat that they'll eat anything.
A successful, sustainable skatepark is much more than simply being crowded:
Diverse design that attracts a diverse user group. Diversity builds community; without it the park will only attract local kids who will become bored with the homogenized social character of the facility.
Older, more experienced skaters should be attracted to the facility to demonstrate park etiquette and provide passive supervision.
A skatepark is more than skating structures. It is a place that gathers and incubates community. For skaters, the skatepark is the meeting hall, watering hole, staging area, and community center. Call it what you will, the skatepark is vital to many members of the community and should reflect that character. A skatepark should be as unique and important as the local community who will be using it.
Skateboarding is a creative exercise and the facility should reflect that creativity. Most 100% modular facilities struggle with this need.
The success of a skatepark also must be measured over a period of time. ANY skatepark will look like an unmitigated success on opening day. If the maintenance regimen is diligently followed and it still attracts a capacity crowd after a year, that's when it can and should be declared a success.
A skatepark's cost cannot be measured by the price tag for construction. It's measured over time...in maintenance dollars and the positive change it makes in the community's youth. When decision-makers in the community work with the local youth to create a compelling place to recreate and that solution is a collection of ramps surrounded by a chain-link fence, don't think for a moment that the subtext is too subtle for the kids who are expected to be satisfied with the new park.
As a lifelong skateboarder I am disappointed to see ramps trumpeted as a success. There are a few cases where they are appropriate...such as when the community needs something NOW until a permanent site or facility can be procured. While I enjoy skating all kinds of terrain, including small ramps and blocks, I have yet to see them perform in the way they are intended; as successful, sustainable skateboarding facilities. Instead, they are an amusing distraction from "real" skateparks.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Teresa Gubbins Staff
here is a park in roanoke that's undergoing repairs: "The 8-year-old park will have new rails, wedge ramps, jersey barriers and renovated half-pipes. Renovations will cost the city about $15,000."
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
A2 Anonymous
Down here in San Marcos, after a few years fight, the kids talked the city into building them a park. When the Parks and Recs dept talked about buying some prefabricated ramps and sticking them on a slab, I was dumbfounded. Concrete barely holds up in Texas weather let alone plastic and thin guage chinese steel. I fought for another year to get the city to go with a "real" skatepark. As a tax payer, I demanded that my money be spent wisely on something that will NEVER need major repairs like the Roanoke park now needs. I guess the skaters may like cement better for ramps, but as a small businessman and taxpayer I like concrete because the facts are...prefab ramps DO NOT LAST, and are a waste of my money.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
WTF Anonymous
The El Paso Boys and Girls Club park was built in late 2004 or early 2005 according to my source.
Also you can follow this thread on our SPS site. I have posted pictures of concrete parks which costs under 200k, and pictures of pros and beginners riding concrete skateparks. Plus more pics of modular parks in poor conditions.
http://www.skatersforpublicskateparks... Skaters for Public Skateparks Forum :: View topic - New Modular Park in Dallas
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
krustyskater Anonymous
"In the end, to a non-skater like me, modular vs. concrete sounds like a religious issue. There is no clear resolution."
The only reason Mike could possibly have made that statement in his article is because he's in denial. If you read every single entry in both threads concerning this travesty, you would have to agree that there is a very clear resolution. If you look at the pictures of the pre fab ramps in the above links, there is no doubt that they are not up to the task.
Skate Wave offers a "generous" 15 year warranty, but does not cover wear and tear. To anyone who's ever ridden a skateboard park, that is really very funny. How else are the ramps going to fail? It's not going to happen just sitting there. The whole idea is to skate the park with as much effort as possible. If you're skating a small wooden deck with urethane wheels, (a skateboard) you should be able to hit that surface as hard as possible. The skateboard should give and occasionally break. On concrete, that is always the case. On prefab, it's a coin toss as to what is going to break, a $50 skateboard deck or a $200,000 skateboard park. Skateboarding is inherintly dangerous and a skater should be able to depend on his own ability to avoid injury. He should not have to avoid sharp edges and the like. Just because the laws have changed to lessen the city's liability, it doesn't mean they don't have some responsibility to provide a safe place to ride.
The only person who disputes this is the guy who is obviously a pre fab rep and I would guess it's probably Mr. Hawkins himself. Mr. Hawkins, why don't you log back onto this site and answer these complaints like a man instead of hiding behind some alter ego pre fab enthusiast who grew up skating concrete parks in the 70's. That entire premise shows the depths to which you will sink to justify ripping off the city of Dallas. This is definitely not akin to a debate on religion. We have all been to Heaven (concrete) and Hell (prefab). We know the difference.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
steveflusche Anonymous
Krusty you are a skateboard poet.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
if_skatin_is_really_a_religion Anonymous
then those who complain in the above comments are not true believers. i live in oakcliff and yea there isnt much money out there, or much to skate as well.its a relief to me that the city is actually providing us with something to skate so i dont understand how anyone has the right to complain over what we were granted. dont get me wrong, a concrete park is a million times better, but for a public park to be frowned upon is ridiculous. if there is a problem with the this park, then go all the way out to allen and skate there or pay youre way into eisenbergs, woodward, havik, whatever. just dont complain about this park...
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
steveflusche Anonymous
Sonny or missy or whatever. You need to pay more attention in school. You understanding of civics and reader comprehension are rather poor. This is a municipal park that the residents of Dallas paid for. I paid for. It wasn't granted to us by a benevolent leader. Future parks in Dallas will also be paid for with mine and others money. As a resident of Dallas and a taxpayer I have every right and actually feel like I have an obligation as a skater to influence the path of skate parks in Dallas. Did you just arrive from the Soviet Union?
That park WILL be enjoyed by local kids. That is for sure but the bottom line is, it is over-priced, highly flawed and could have been so much more. The difference between this park is just like the difference between a China board from Toys-R-Us and a real skateboard. You know what I am talking about. You have a choice. So make it.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
steveflusche Anonymous
You paid for it too. Every time you buy something. Sales tax. Think about it.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
J_Mortimer Anonymous
Man o Man is getting a bit tense here. Someone needs to spray some water on the crowd.
I have some advice for the skaters who aren't happy with the quality of the new park.
Get involved with the process but do it in a positive way. Protesting and belittling the efforts of others does not help your cause no matter how right you might be.
A lot people went to great effort to get the city to pay for a skate park. The "you work for me" or "its my money, pal" attitude will shut many more doors in your face than it will open them.
Many people who you will depend on to get a better park next time will or have already associated themselves with THIS park. Thus, if you attack it as an effort of incompetence then those people will quite possibly take it as a personal attack of their efforts. They will be much less likely to help you or to seek your aid. They will push you to the side and marginalize you. They will ignore you. In the end the next park might end up being the same as this one if you don't work with people.
You have to start with the end in mind. With that in mind, if you want to acheive a better goal next time you need to work within the system and not against it.
Start by complementing the efforts so far by noting that Dallas has recognized the need for a skate park and its benefits. After that note that although you complement the effort, you think the next skate park can be more durable, better designed with the skaters in mind, and cheaper at the same time.
You may not like it but that's how municipal politics often works.
J.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
krustyskater Anonymous
Spray water on us, push us, put margarine on us, ignore us, whatever. The bottom line is that "You do work for us, it is my money, pal, and I am attacking this as an act of incompetence".
I won't be attending any of your meetings. My friends have attended these until they're blue in the face. As far as how municipal politics works, I think this article pretty much explains it. http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2007/...
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Mike Orren Staff
Interesting article, albeit three years old, on skatepark warranties:
http://www.warrantyweek.com/archive/w...
So much info to be found on the Interwebs, no?
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
steveflusche Anonymous
I think most people are just venting here.
Everyone loves having their ego stroked and no one likes to be called on their B.S.
People involved already know how to choose their words wisely and have been doing so for a long long long time.
If this doesn't work. What's plan B.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
TWeller Anonymous
Thank you krusty you beat me to the punch! Perhaps I should just take my 10Grand in property taxes out in the back yard & burn it!! As for incompetence the fact that they were offered 1.5 mil. to build a park & did nothing proves that point!
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
TWeller Anonymous
steve As much as I hate to say it plan B maybe to get the donor interested again & look outside the City of Dallas for a grant of land?
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Mike Orren Staff
TWeller, who was the donor? I'd love to talk to him.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
TWeller Anonymous
BTW grew up skating concrete in Southsea England , built in the late 70's,still there today. I would love to see that Skatewave stuff in 30+ years.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
TWeller Anonymous
Mike i can put you in touch with the guy that was liaising the whole thing, other than that I think it was something that "he"(the donor) didn't want to be made too public. I'll P.M. you .
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Greg Stubbs Verified
No one is attacking anyone involved with getting this park off ground. The city itself is being attacked for not listening to us, the collective skateboard community in Dallas, for the last 10 years. The very people that have been down to city hall talking to people IN PERSON about skateparks were ignored in all of this. If you noticed any of the prior comments, you'll see that we have attended meetings, made phone calls, written emails and made every other effort you can think of to get a skatepark built.
HOW LONG DID THE COMMUNITY OF LAKELAND HILLS WORK ON GETTING THIS PARK? A FEW MONTHS?
That is a major part of the rub you are witnessing on this website. Those of us who have cared about this issue the longest are the very ones who have been and are ignored.
We have stated repeatedly that the city building a skatepark is a great thing. The city building a not so great skatepark is not great. The people that recognized the need are great, too. We thank them. But trial and error with tax payer dollars is too expensive.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
TWeller Anonymous
Could of had this for free! http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m1... Got the above for 250,000?????????
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
J_Mortimer Anonymous
Geez lousie! I give some helpful advice and I get attacked. No wonder you guys don't get what you want.
"No one is attacking anyone involved with getting this park off ground. The city itself is being attacked for not listening to us, the collective skateboard community in Dallas, for the last 10 years."
I'm sorry but that's not true. "The City" is not some amorphous blob. Its actually an entity made up of, in part, people and those people take the projects VERY personally. When the projects get critisized, then they, very often, feel personally insulted because oftentimes they had to fight hard for what they got even if it wasn't the best.
If the behavior here represents, in any way, the manner in which "the skateboard community" represents itself to a municipality then that explains why it was not listening if indeed that was the case.
If the guy who says "I won't be attending any of your meetings" (as if I magically possess anything with regards to anything about the City of Dallas) represents how you present yourself to a city -- any city -- then its no wonder you are ignored.
All I did was provide some helpful, very ground level advice on starting to get things done. Its all well and good to be idealistic and say things like "trial and error with tax payer dollars is too expensive" but very often thats how it works with municipal projects in ANY city. That's the truth of it so get used to it. You can shoot the messenger if you'd like. Go ahead. I have thick skin and I don't have a dog in this hunt. If you treat people just trying to give you helpful advice and who don't have any involvement with this park like crap then how are you going to treat people who do? How are they going to feel? Not well I imagine. If you keep shooting at people who DO want to help you and are in a position to actually get things done don't be surprised when the next skate park is made of balsa wood and paper.
Its all well and good to play the outsider victim but that person isn't the actually person charged with responsibilities for skate parks and a hunded other things. In the end you have to deal with those people. It's up to you guys. You either want to get things done by playing the game or you don't.
J
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
BobLoftin Anonymous
The sad truth is that a very minimal amount of research (beyond company sales materials) will quickly reveal the lack of long-term value in modular parks. Sad because 1)either no research was done or 2)it was done and ignored in favor a quick concrete pour and slapping down some ramps. And it isn't like there aren't now dozens or maybe even hundreds of examples of how to do it right.
Well, I commend the city on being willing to spend some money. Sure, kids will enjoy that space until the ramps fall apart (which by my calculations should have started already). Then they'll keep having fun on the broken carcass. That is what skateboarders do - they create fun where none previously existed. But please, next time listen to the people who've been doing this for 30+ years.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
TWeller Anonymous
"If you keep shooting at people who DO want to help you and are in a position to actually get things done don't be surprised when the next skate park is made of balsa wood and paper." Perhaps you missed my post above about FREE! From what I know about the project the first site was axed because Mr Trammel Crow didn't want it anywhere near his new "Luxury Lofts " development ,try fighting that, & yes, I hope they do take it personally!
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Greg Stubbs Verified
J Mortimer -
Statman wrote - "Not only am I a consultant that works with cities and private groups with an interest in skate park construction and design but I been Skating for most of the last Thirty-two years."
This is Lou Statman, a man who has worked closely with the parks and rec people here in Dallas and other cities in the D/FW area over the last decade on skateparks. He has darkened the hallways of City Hall for years. He's been the voice of Dallas skatepark advocacy here in Dallas at City Hall for years. If the parks and rec people are not aware of Lou and his efforts I'd be surprised. They probably know him by name he's spent so much time in and out of there over the years.
Following your logic, should I take it "personally" that all that talk was ignored? And I realize you don't have a dog in this hunt since you are a citizen of Richardson. Your tax money was not spent. I do take what you say to heart, though. Politics is a slow process as we have experienced first hand. I and others are most willing to WORK WITH THE CITY AND IT'S CIVIL SERVANTS WHICH WE THE TAX PAYERS EMPLOY. I just hope they are willing to work with us.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Greg Stubbs Verified
And T Weller is correct.
THIS WAS ALREADY PRIVATELY FUNDED BY A PRIVATE PARTY, A PROMINENT DALLAS BUSINESS MAN, LEADER AND SKATEBOARDER BUT
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m1...
THIS was the design for the park that was supposed to be at the southeast corner of I-35 and Oaklawn. It's zoned for a park but Trammel Crow Co. stated they didn't want "that kind of element in that area." I'm assuming THAT element to which they refer is skateboard element.
Of course the element that is currently there, transvestite crackheads, meth-heads and heroin addicts having sex in the bushes, certainly deserves a place in Dallas, too.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Greg Stubbs Verified
But if you want to pour a Katy Trail they'll whip that out lickity split. Of course when you're a rich pititzer from uptown all your needs are met by the city.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
picklis Anonymous
Well first of all i see all the negative energy.I am a skater at the age of 30 and i grew up with skating the hardships of texas.As a former citizen of beaumont Tx we had nothing to skate but ditches flimsy backyard ramps and dirt.Not untill 6 years later was I able to drive 2 hours to Houston to pay to skate.As all skaters know the skate drought of the mid 90's.Only the true at heart skaters survived only for video games(tony hawk)to create a whole new outlook on the adverage clueless all american family.I had a respect to find and ride everything. Now for 10 years know i have been hunting concrete parks in http://colorado(www.grindline.com). this was something like i had never seen befor.Now in the past 2 years tx has blown up in the concrete park area. i believe there is 16 in Tx now. This topic is all to familure with the Houston problem.The same as Dallas, blueprints and design but no park.Also for houston to ignore and put up pre fab at ez7(older sk8 ditch ) They pourd he worst slab known to man, tons of slag and 3 major cracks before even installing the ramps. I have spent few hours at ez7, but in summer months eeehhh...I still would consider this a LAST RESORT PARK.Meaning i wouldnt travel across town or state to visit this park. Not that i am greedy ,but I personally moved to a part of Tx where atleast i have concrete to ride.It really lets me down when i meet kids skating that tell me they havnt been to allen, or to woodward ect.These places are so close and these kids have no advantage to ride across town to play in some other citys park. I have been to tons of skatepark meetings to always get the same result. (nothing but wasted time) Being from Beaumont t6here was nobody to listen and a fairly lage underground skate scene, but nobody to listen, in houston only 7 people showing up to push meetings. Honestly if Dallas and Houston would step up to the real world of future sports it could keep so many kids from being in trouble.These concrete parks DO help our ECONOMY because people such as myself travel to visit these awsome LANDMARKS. If the city can spend ($250,000) on a tenis cout for 8 people to play on then they can surly spend a pretty penny for a park for 50 kids to play on. THANKS FOR YOUR HEARING AND READING MY HORRIBLE SPELLING PICKLE
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Mike Orren Staff
Although I agree somewhat with J_Mort's advice to folks who want to see the city behave differently vis-a-vis skateparks, I do want the skate enthusiasts commenting on this to know that they are being heard. In many ways, this is exactly what Pegasus News is all about -- the community participating in the story and helping us to bring to like information that rarely makes the 6:00 news or the front page of the daily paper.
I've unfortunately spent my day buried in spreadsheets (I'm not only a reporter, I'm the president), so I haven't been able to devote the time I'd like to this today. But here's what I've done:
That story is to me the biggest one here, presuming I can confirm it. And if I can, it's one to which we'll draw a lot of attention.
For those too lazy to click through, here are the plans referenced, which are from a skate park designer:
Meantime, one group of people whom I want to make sure get treated sensitively in this discussion are these folks:
Save for the Parks and Rec representative in the middle, these folks didn't choose modular or Skatewave. They are neighborhood crimewatch leaders who wanted to do something about the sad state of their park. They went to the city, not seeking a skate park so much as park improvements. They were told that what the 2003 bond project made available was a skate park, so that's what they worked over two years to make happen. As it was pointed out at the grand opening, none of them will ever ride -- they did this for the kids and their neighborhood. If modular was the wrong choice, they didn't make it. And if it was the wrong choice, they have been hurt as much as anyone. And, they certainly should not be the object of any skater's ire.
While we're at it, let's not rush to judgment on the Parks people either. I'm making it a priority to talk with them tomorrow so that we can understand their side of this too. And as J_Mort suggests, they're much more likely to be sympathetic to a different point of view when approached with questions rather than accusations.
A major difference between Pegasus News and other local news sites is that we encourage opinion in reporting and reporters (professional and amateur) transparently covering topics in which they have a stake. I'll confess that my feelings for my neighborhood and for the work these folks have done (in this and many other efforts) may have colored my take on this one. I appreciate our community keeping us honest via the comments, and I hope you'll continue to do so, but with a measured eye to all the interests involved.
For I do see this as two separate but intersecting issues:
Keep feeding us all the info you can (whatever side of this debate you may take), and we'll continue to follow up on both those stories.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Greg Stubbs Verified
Thank you for that, Mike.
And thank you to the civic leaders that did a great thing for a neighborhood in need.
That is always a good thing.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
TWeller Anonymous
Thanx for some very fair comment Mike , yes its hard to see both sides whe you feel like you have been the one that got ripped off ,& thanx to those at the Furguson Rd Initiative that tried so hard! I look forward to reading more about this when you get the interveiws you talk about.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
krustyskater Anonymous
Mr. Mortimer, I was the one who said I won't be attending the meetings. Your comments were not entirely helpful and ground level. They were somewhat arrogant and condescending. And your last comments about us deserving a park made of paper show just how thin skinned you really are. You speak to us as though you're talking to children, but you have no idea. I have been skateboarding for over 40 years. I also own a successful business. I know how to get things done. I know the value of a buck. The reality is we are independent free thinking American adults. We are not treating you like crap. We're treating you like an equal. This is how we live our lives and discuss our passions. Get used to it.
Mr. Orren, you make some very valid points in your last post. My hat is off to the neighborhood watch people who pushed to improve their local park. And I'm sure the parks employees don't intend to short change anyone. We are just very frustrated at the fact that this area has many adult seasoned skateboarders with the interest, expertise and experience to help guide these decisions and we're being underminded by these prefab people. The intent by the city is very commendable. We just need to get on the right track for skateboarding's future.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
TWeller Anonymous
Lets put out a little bit of background here; I'm a 44 yr. old Skateboarder who has been skating for 30+ yrs. Resident of Lakewood for 12 yrs.,home owner & property tax (lets not forget sales tax) payer for the same amount of time. Owned & ran my own business for 7 yrs. (construction, I built Tei Tei , & all the Gengis Grills as well as some bars & clubs in Deep Ellem)now work as a hair colorist in the Neimans Downtown. one of my clients also happens to be a certain Ex-City Commissioner of Dallas,& we have discussed the machinations of the council for a long time,this is a city that seeks to serve those that have a voice & unfortunately that happens to be those with alot of money . The grouching from all of "us" above is due in no small part to the fact we have tried so hard to get Dallas on the map for skateboarding , we care passionately & deeply about this issue. If we have sounded like we are criticizing the citizens from the crime watch that sponsored this park ,then for that I say we are profoundly sorry! As for our criticism of the council , that stands(& believe me I want to say a lot more that could ever be shared on this site!) Once the people in charge start listening (i.e. Angela Hunt on the Trinity issue) I'll be there. Thanx for putting up with me Yours Tracy J Weller
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
M_Laird Anonymous
Mike Orren, thank you for your researches into this matter. Hopefully these figures will be helpful:
I can direct your attention to two PHENOMENAL Texas skateparks that cost less than $250,000 and are internationally recognized as belonging to the VANGUARD of modern skatepark design and execution that will stand the test of time:
+AMARILLO+ http://grindline.com/cgi-bin/view.pl?...
+SAN ANGELO+ http://grindline.com/cgi-bin/view.pl?...
These two Texas communities were well-served by the contractors, whereas the Citizens of Dallas, and Lakeland Hills in particular, were grossly short-changed by Skatewave.
Signed,
M. Laird
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
TWeller Anonymous
One last comment before I go to bed the rather large lady that I talked to said "4 more 1 in Plano" ??????
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
picklis Anonymous
GOODNIGHT EVERYONE. SWEET DREAMS, BECAUSE IM ALREADY HAVING NIGHTMARES
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
OBradley Anonymous
As of next week I will be a resident of Lakewood (moving from London, England). I have been skating 23 years and was very keen to find out what facilities exist in the area. The US is famously the birth place of skateboarding, and Texas, as Mr Stubbs has pointed out does indeed have an international reputation for its contribution. I was at first very excited, and then very disappointed to find out about this new 'skatepark'.
Unfortunately this problem exists all over the world, playground companies cashing in on the popularity of skateboarding.
It is harmful in so many ways. I do feel very sorry for all involved, seeing that photo of all the organizers who have obviously tried very hard to do something really useful for the community, and have plainly been ripped off by the smooth talking prefab companies. It is such a shame.
Its an old story and one that I hope does not happen in Dallas, but this is the usual progression of a prefab skatepark.
I hope with the amount of interest generated from the current events this process will be nipped in the bud, but one thing that is guaranteed is that the likes of skatewave will not be giving up easily.
Oliver Bradley
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Greg Stubbs Verified
We look forward to gaining your residence here in the area, Mr. Bradley.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
J_Mortimer Anonymous
Now those are more constructive comments! Thanks to Mr Orren for bringing some focus to the issue.
OBradley,
Welcome to the area. Thanks for your helpful comments. If you are ever up toward the Richardson area, drop me an e-mail and I will show you around.
J
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Mike Orren Staff
Searching for something on another park, I finally found the amount Council approved for Lakeland Hills:
http://www.ci.dallas.tx.us/cso/ag1213...
Authorize a contract for the construction of a skate park, skate equipment with steel skate surface, chain link fencing, a drinking fountain, landscaping, and concrete walks at Lakeland Hills Park located at 2600 St. Francis - Escamilla Construction, Inc., lowest responsible bidder of seven - $250,043 - Financing: 2003 Bond Funds [06-3357; APPROVED]
That obviously includes more than the skate park, but it would certainly be the lions share.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Tim_Mott Anonymous
I am not a resident of Texas but I have a warm place in my heart for it because many of my friends and childhood skate heros are from the state.
I am very concerned about the people involved in the construction of this park, mainly Greg. I know nothig of the man. but there are many people involve in the "Skatepark industry" that are hired as consultants to design the parks that are also reps for companies such as Skatewave. Is this the case with Greg? Was he hired/paid as a consultant and then sold the Skatewave stuctures to the city and once again profited from the sale of the ramps? This has been and still is a problem with the playground companies being involved in skateparks. They go before the cities and have a pretty slick delivery that most council people like because they have all the answers. They take the money and leave the city to deal with the aftermath.
You don't hire a tennis player to design golf course.
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
picklis Anonymous
this is a list of park companies that are some of my favorite.the company that has built the surrounding area parks is california skates. i personally would recomend the next future park to be from a different company (not that anything is wrong with california skates)but just to add a different flavor. these companies all have different ideas and designs. so ill get on with it. http://teampain.com this is the number on company that builds all ramps for x-games and concrete parks all over the world second is http://www.dreamlandskateparks. this company has built burnside skatepark (which was built under a freeway.they have also built a really nice park in hammond lousianna for like $80,000. and third http://www.grindline.com. this is in my opinion the leading park designer in revolutionary skateparks. check trinidad colorado and austin (lakeway and mable davis). these are a few of the top leading contractors that are experts at leaving permanent skate landmarks for generations to come pickle
1 year, 3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
picklis Anonymous
this is a link to a page that is a month old.it supports pools skateparks ditches and backyard ramps all across texas.i developed this page to help unionize skaters all across tx.it announces all contest and helps pe