Best Bites: Dining out in Dallas-Fort Worth May 3

gospain, says:

Glad to see another REAL pizza joint in town --especially one where I can bring my own wine. Actually, I like a dry sparkling Prosecco with pizza. But my Italian friend says that in Italy they always drink BEER with pizza.

ms_ery, says:

Why oh why couldn't Olivella's have picked a different neighborhood? Maybe I could get in if I wore a white nylon uniform and pretended to be picking up a pie for my employer.

Ready for a NO iced coffee right now.

ms_ery, says:

I hope someone Yuppie or young enough to pass at Olivella's has acted on TG's tip and checked this place out. Give us a report.

Also, interesting comment by Mr. O in the story refer'd in TG's report. It quotes Mr. O as saying New York City has the best water for pizza-making. Wonder how he finds the local stuff.

Billusa99, says:

I've heard that "water thing" before and don't believe it. I think it's an NYC attitude thing. Humidity, elevation and air temperature are going to make a lot more difference in dough than treated water source.

I wonder if boiled potatos taste different? What about the Pop-Tarts manufacture up there? Is the Kleenex made at the Kimberly-Clark plant in New Milford, CT -- just over the line from NYC -- smoother?

twisteddog, says:

And where does that clean, clear NY water come from exactly? The Hudson? If only Naples had a Hudson! I'm thinking Florida didn't have the clientele to support a NY pizza place. Old Jews no like-a the spicy foods.

DC, says:

Well, noone suggested it was clean and clear - just delicious!

ms_ery, says:

Should we just shoot twisteddog?

Anyway, re NY water being different: Maybe it is all the albino alligators in the city sewers. They got to have some effect. And as for the water making a difference in pizza or bagels, how should that be different than with matzoh balls? Many Jewish cooks use seltzer water to make them lighter.Maybe we should try seltzer in pizza dough too.

twisteddog, says:

The idea that anybody would want to shoot me is just ridiculous. By the way, I've been to Olivella's and, if you're nice, I'll tell you about it.

ms_ery, says:

OK, twisteddog, I'll make nice -- or should I say make nyce? Anyway, tell us about your visit to Olivella's. I hope you tried a pizza with speck, even tho that might be too spicy for the palates of some old Jews.

Billusa99, says:

Do ya think, just maybe, that the massive heat and humidity in Boca had anything to do with the lousy pizza dough? Noooooooo, of course not!

Said massive heat and humidity (or the high A/C to counteract it) didn't cause their hair to frizz or their shirts to wrinkle, either. So, it certainly had no effect on the dough sitting 3 feet away from the aforementioned items. It certainly had no effect on the flour sitting in unconditioned warehouses and trucks en route to the "test kitchen" too.

Nope... lack of NYC water was the cause.

ms_ery, says:

OK, NYC water tastes good. But so does Dallas water. I remember a tasteoff in the '80s, when bottled water was just getting hot, that pitted some city libations against the froufrou labels Dallas water came out great. I lived in Manhattan for many years and drank the water straight from the tap. I do the same in Dallas. Iced is probably better if you are fussy, but neither are objectionable at room temp.

So, twisted dog, everyone's favorite blogger: How was the pizza at Olivello's?

twisteddog, says:

Well, if you're gonna hold a gun to my head ...:

Olivella's isn't as uppity as all that, and it doesn't have back-door service.

Being across the street from SMU, some of its prime customers are fashionably shoddy college students, as you can see in the pix below. But, being in HP, fluorescent lights and asbestos ceiling tiles won't bring in the neighborhood. The obvious thing to do in that situation is to go with a "California" look. And that's what they've done.

Lots of wood and wrought iron make the place seem more like a winery tasting room than a pizza joint. Golden oak doors open out to the sidewalk where there are three cafe tables. Maybe 10 nice wood tables fill the inside and stools line the bar, looking like a parade of leather-topped mushrooms. The bar itself wraps around the brick oven/dough prep area and runs along one wall.

I saw no tossing of dough, though it's not really necessary for pizza. Nor did I ask if the water was imported from the NYC public water supply -- which, incidentally, comes from Delaware, Greene, Schoharie, Sullivan and Ulster Counties, and may contain radiation, substances from human and animal activities, microbial contaminants, pesticides and other tasty, dough-enhancing treats. [1]

Speck is insignificant. I didn't order it. And it was hard to find a truly original pizza on the menu. You have your pear and gorgonzola (plus hazelnuts). The standard margarita. One dedicated to imported Bufalina. Basically, the menu appears to be the same as described in the story about L'Asso that tg links to. There's nothing wrong with tradition, and if those pizzas compare with the pizzas I ordered you'll have no reason to complain, as you people so often do.

The "diavolo" pizza's spice comes from both jalapenos and red pepper capicola. The dice on the jalapenos was small enough so they were hardly noticeable, and the heat didn't obscure the flavors from the dollops of tomato sauce or the house-made mozz. Come to think of it, the sauce has chipotle in it, too. I should have stolen a menu.

The second pizza, a San Daniele, is topped with prosciutto from that region, the above-mentioned cheese and a pile of arrrrrrrugula. The ham is slightly sweet, crispy on the edges and salty-chewy in the middle. I usually don't like prosciutto on pizzas, but this stuff went well with the bitterness of the arugula. I might eat another piece one day.

I can't make a call on the crust and the effect of local tap water vs. NY sewer water. I got both pizzas to go, and to really judge a crust I think you should eat it right out of the wood-fired oven. I, however, usually wait a minute or two for it to cool. Both crusts held up to the drive home, had the requisite puffy charred edges and both a snap and a yield. The 12-inch diavolo was cut into only four slices, which is just dumb and hopefully a mistake. The Danielle had a nice eight.

Prices for the twelves run between $13-$17. They also have a larger, thinner, rectangular "Roman" style crust that starts at $17, if I remember right.

The place is good, but I didn't get the head rush I got when I first tried Fireside Pies or Campania. I don't know if that's because I got the pizza to go, or if I'm completely spoiled on good pizza. I'll go back to find out.

PIX!

ms_ery, says:

Nice review, twisted dog. Remember to steal a menu and you could be a pro.

twisteddog, says:

Thanks. Next time I'll wear pants.

J_Mortimer, says:

All this NY dog food talk makes me puke. Give me Geno's East in downtown Chicahhhgo.

J

kirk, says:

There you go with the Ditka talk again.

twisteddog, says:

Rachel Ray is pure evil.

J_Mortimer, says:

Kirk,

For the record, you've mentioned the name of that particular sports figure in the commentdom of Pegnews more than I have.

J

ms_ery, says:

I recall a Rachael Ray show where she went to an upscale restaurant, in Dallas, I think, and just ordered something like a soup or dessert, to stay under her $40 daily allowance. Of course, even though it was prime time and she was taking up a four-top, she only tipped the waiter exactly 15 percent, about $1. Bet he wouldn't have loved her -- if he hadn't known he was going to be on TV.

twisteddog, says:

I've only really seen her morning show, and it's a worthless piece of crap.

Here is why she's evil:

1) she doesn't actually cook anything on the show. she just half-assedly throws together pre-prepped ingredients, doesn't discuss the actual cooking or technique and calls it a 30-minute meal.

But most egregious, 2) The entire show is centered on making her audience feel like they've done something, accomplished something, and high-5-ing them for that. When, in fact, they've done nothing. The whole thing is an exercise in false self-esteem boosting.

Oh, and despite the lengths the camera crew goes to hide it, she's fat.

pizzalover, says:

Dear Twisted Dog and Moronic Disciples:

Consider changing your handle to Pompous Pied-Piper of Fraud Pizzas…and this is why… 1) Anyone who thinks that the water has anything to do with making a good dough doesn’t know squat about mixing flour. My understanding is that Olivella’s uses three different kinds of flour in the correct proportions, which is why after 4 different meals I haven’t felt bloated. If you don’t believe it about the water, take some from your garden hose in Seagoville and ask a pizzamaker on the East Coast to put it in his dough all weekend. Oh, that’s right…you’ve never been out of Texas….(assumption is based on your glib comparisons of a real Italian wood-burning pizza to one cooked up in a gas oven (Campania) or Fireside which does use wood and makes a nice crust to complement its macaroni sauce). 2) Have you ever eaten at Arturo’s in the Village, Totonno’s on Coney Island, Patsy’s on 118th Street, DiFarra’s in Brooklyn, or at Pepe’s or Sally’s in New Haven? Evidently not. So how on earth do you pontificate about pizza? Speaking of your arrogance/ignorance…do you or your fan club know that Campania is not a pizza family? Campania is a tile maker…that’s right…bathroom tiles—and a very good one I might add. 3) Chipotle in pizza sauce??? Only someone who doesn’t know how to make a sweet and tangy sauce has to resort to gimmicks like chipotle and garlic. Which gets to the next point…have you and your Cici’s/Domino’s/”if it says pizza I’ll eat it” minions ever heard of the term D.O.P.? Look it up. Olivella’s claims to use only the first pick of San Marzano tomatoes—I insisted on seeing the label and sure enough, their canned tomatoes are stamped D.O.P. by the Italian government. Try finding that anywhere in this country. 4) Finally, you obviously have never been to Italy if you are going to compare the environment of Olivella’s to an L.A. café/bistro/whatever. Then again, you probably think California is a foreign country. Unlike much of California (which is one of the lower 48), the new pizzeria is authentic from top to bottom…but in all fairness to you…should we really expect a bewildered ass to know the difference?

DC, says:

Wow. A whole new level of rant. Could you please fire off some donair places in Halifax, too?

WhitneyTM, says:

Have you pizza freaks seen this:

http://www.sliceny.com/

A friend of a friend in NY's pizza blog. Maybe you can redirect some of your pizza anger. mmm...pizza.

kirk, says:

Pizzalover:

You can buy D.O.P. San Marzano tomatoes at Kroger in Plano, so they're hardly the precious commodity you imply.

By the way, the D.O.P. "stamp" isn't from the Italian government; it's the result of an EU law passed in 1992 to deal with each member country's varying "quality guarantees."

Since you obviously are a sophisticated world traveller, perhaps the following will help explain it to you. Some of the 'Dog's "disciples" can help translate, if the fine points elude you.

"La DOP nasce (insieme alla IGP) nel 1992 grazie al Regolamento CEE 2081/92 della Comunità Europea, ed è valida solamente per i prodotti agroalimentari (vini e bevande alcoliche esclusi). È quella che impone le norme più stringenti in assoluto, e quindi è quella che garantisce più di tutte il consumatore, almeno riguardo ad alcune caratteristiche del prodotto che vedremo in seguito."

kirk, says:

J_Mortimer:

Ditka's name will not pass my lips again. However, I will suggest that the next time you are in Chicago you skip Gino's East and try Lou Malnati's or Giordano's. Meantime, if you get a hankering for decent deep dish, try Chicago St. Pizza at Coit and Hedgcoxe in Plano. Be sure to order extra cheese. It's damned close to the real deal.

Scott, says:

TG writes, "She takes a bite and then they always cut away before she swallows it so she can spit it out into a cup somewhere off camera."

Really? I always do that at Sonny Bryan's, too.

Billusa99, says:

Hey pizzalover...

Add an 'E' to DOP and what do you get? I done been to Eye-taly and done that. Get your saucy trot down to Jimmy's and have tussle with Paul about SM tomatoes, then we'll see who's the expert.

Are you sre that you are not Mr. Ward, of NYC, who shills tap water in Zagat, that most famous of phony-rating guides? Does the science of dough-making in humid environs ever enter your saucy speech, or cross your gummy-gluten mind, or are you a provocateuer of all things NYC, too?

For once I agree with Sir Mutts-a-lot... good snipe, bowser, and thanks for the pizza update, yo!

J_Mortimer, says:

Kirk,

Oh! Oh! You said it again! :-)

I've been to Giordano's. Nice but its not a Geno's. Never been to Malnati's. I'll have to try that next time I'm up there. Thanks for that tip.

There have been so many start up chains that say "Chicago" in the name and they are often complete crap. There was this chain faux brewery place with "Chicago" in the name that opened up around here many years ago. I found out it was based in Denver and it was horrible.

I've seen that Chicago St. Pizza in my treks to that dangerous area known as "Plano, Allen, and Frisco." I always wondered what to make of it.

J

bobdon000, says:

The NYC water comes from reservoirs in New Jersey (mostly). New Jersey pies beat NYC pies anyday...must be somthing that happens to the water when it gets transported miles and miles across state lines.....

ms_ery, says:

My gawd! Pizza is a good food choice, but this single-mindedness is crazy. Chicago has great Polish and Greek choices, so why spend all your time on pie. On one of my last visits, I enjoyed a fabulous beef heart dish at a Peruvian restaurant (plus great Charlie Trotter's fare); the beef heart was much more interesting than a deep-dish pizza. New York also offers many ethnic delights, as does Dallas -- if you search out the smaller, non-trendy and more authentic places.

Billusa99, says:

Agreed, ms_ery! There's nothing better than walking and noshing Greektown in Chi' Town!

But, I'll pick a nicely excised liver, fava beans, and a fiiiiiiiiine Chianti over beef heart anyday!

ms_ery, says:

Re the Peruvian comment; hope everyone saw the story in this week's New York Times on the hemp/rope bridges the Incas built years ago over yawning gorges. Sort of early Golden Gate spans. Incas seem to have been a lot in the news lately, and when you think of all their contributions -- including potatoes and chocolate -- I'm impressed (despite their terrible human sacrifices).

Also, the NYT has a story on a Los Angeles pizza place that has blown everyone away. Secret seems to be not in mix of flours, but letting the dough rest overnight. Plus a chef's inspired toppings.

Billusa: I'm a liver fan, so I'd like to hear more about your liver-fava bean dish. Every time I go to Luby's-- I know, it's a pedestrian choice -- I have a Luann specail of liver and grilled onions, no gravy, mustard greens, mashed potatoes and jalapeno cornbread. Excellent meal; very reasonable price.

Billusa99, says:

Here's the NYT story. She uses LA water, and the sauce don't sound DOPy, either. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/09/din...

ms-ery... I don't do that dish... Hannibal Lector does. Sorry, you have been gotcha'ed -- twistedmutt style -- again. ;-)

pizzalover, says:

Dear Billusa,

Thought we were talking about D.O.P. tomatoes in the pizza sauce. Bet you can find truffles at Central Market, too but not every restaurant serves them--idiot. (But thanks for the advanced degree in EU trademarks--does the Plano store use New York City water in its labels? Yum!!!)

As for the water, anyone ignorant enough to believe that myth is also susceptible to bathroom tile manufacturers passing themselves off as pizzamakers (Campania), Cheeseburger moguls (CoalVines) doing likewise, and Cuba Libre proprietors serving up macaroni sauce on allegedly New York water-infused dough. Next time you're snapping pics in Times Square, try Abatino's--you'll probably L-O-O-O-O-V-E it. Then again, you can get your fix by doing a quick turn to Newark Intl. and wolfing down a Sbarro slice.

Billusa99, says:

pizzalover...

• You clearly have me mixed up with other people here.

• You clearly have anger management issues and "name calling" issues.
  

• You clearly have not read the TOS of this site, 'cause if you had then you would not be calling people "idiots" and risking removal.

• You clearly are defensive about OliveOil's Pizza Parlor. So, you must have money sunk into it, eh?

• I've never been to NY, let alone taken pics there.

• You clearly have missed the entire flow of this multi-faceted thread.

• Clear, now?

Scott, says:

If "pizzalover" is affiliated with Olivella's, it's a shame. Olivella's makes a darned good pizza. I'd hate to see that obscured by a misguided, public overreaction to critics.

twisteddog, says:

Boy, I go out of town for one day and you people get all yanked up. For the record, it's TwistedDog's ARMY.
T-shirts available soon.

kirk, says:

Put me down for one of those T-shirts, Twisty.

bobdon000, says:

Hey Pizzalover........

How much moola have you sunk into OliveOils??

gospain, says:

I was really enjoying the lively (albeit geeky) debate over water and pizza dough, until pizzalover got scarily hostile, resorting to name calling and hurling insults. That's unfortunate. Really, I liked all the dough/water talk not so much for the content, but for the passion the writers seem to have about pizza and crust. It's that kind of zeal that fosters a "food city" environment -- one that actually spurs food entrepreneurs to take risks, open quirky joints, open authentic ethnic joints. Pizzalover should take a hard look at the "my momma would be proud of what I just wrote" label on the submit button before every writing again. Just because we write anonymously on the net doesn't mean we shouldn't be guided by a shred of decency. Scary how anonymity can bring out the worst in ourselves. We are writing to other people, not for ourselves. Save the anger for your journal/diary.

ohreally, says:

twisteddgo says "The place is good, but I didn't get the head rush I got when I first tried Fireside Pies or Campania" Dude you need to eat some real pizza, not that doughy, sloppy glop served at Fireside and the so-so pizza at Campania. Coal Vines & Olivella's are as close as Big D gets to good pizza. As to the CA feel, try going to Italy and looking at the crumbling buildings and then you'll understand why it's not a CA look at all.

twisteddog, says:

That's Twisted Dog. Dgude.