sgtmajorbrad Anonymous

This is great and about time. The gutless Grapevine Council candidates wouldn't return any emails concerning a position on illegal immigrants renting in our community except Wilkinson and Undersander. Both of those were vague and ambiguous. As for the self serving position of the previous commentor take note the citizens of this country are fed up with the burden of illegal aliens and their cries of entitlement. Go back to where you came from and clean up your own yard before taking a dump in ours!

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

carrierpigeon Anonymous

I've never heard a more bigoted rant than the first post on this thread. The idea that this applies more to any Mexican, legal or not, than to any Canadian is absurd.

But that having been said, I'd like to know if that person has some numbers of illegal Canadians that might substantiate the magnitude of this problem. I certainly am ready to disenfranchise Canadians who are here creating a skewed and flawed economy in our country as quickly as as any other nationality.

Thankfully, the ordinance is NOT specific to Mexicans and it is SPECIFICALLY not pertinant to people of Mexican descent who are legally in this country.

Thankfully there is evidence that the sensibilities of people have not been completely eliminated by the political correctness that seems pervasive in the powers that be in even some of the most sensible communities in our country.

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

sailor4330 Anonymous

"This is going to be used not just against illegal aliens, but against Mexicans in general. Canadians, however, will not even be questioned about their citizenship - unless their skin is brown. Chalk one up for the White Supremacists."

RK: How utterly naive and disingenuous.

It sounds like this poster is anti-white and is appalled the laws of the land are being upheld.

Such a racist slant on a problem that effects every American by driving down wages, overloading our courts, jails, prisons, schools emergency rooms, and will likely drive the black community out of any possibility of getting jobs, is absolutely disgusting.

Right now there are black/Hispanic racial wars being fought sporadically across the country, but especially in California, where the schools, jails and prisons are placed on lockdown on a regular basis due to racial rioting. The illegal alien crises is making the situation worse with each passing year.

To say attempts at putting a lid on this dangerous and deplorable situation is racial by linking it to white supremacism is the utterance of a drooling idiot.

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

twisteddog Anonymous

RK, please quit taking jobs from the black man and starting race riots and turning this into a racial issue.

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

sailor4330 Anonymous

"twisteddog Anonymous" "RK, please quit taking jobs from the black man and starting race riots and turning this into a racial issue."

RK: What a poorly written rebuttal. I'd suggest you go back to school before you try your hand at written expression.

And so far as your clumsy attempts to divert from the facts of the matter, you might also educate yourself as to what is going on in the country.

Every word of what I wrote is right on. Just because it makes you feel uncomfortable (or afraid?) doesn't mean this country isn't having some serious racial problems that are being made worse by illegal immigration.

You remind me of the girl who accidentally cut her finger, then covers it up, because it makes her feel as if it doesn't exist.

This is real life and the adult world, and we don't solve problems by pretending they don't exist or because somebody's politically correct brainwashing denies their existence.

Grow up.

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

twisteddog Anonymous

"sailor moon:" Please quit describing your life as a little girl. This is serious.

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

WhitneyTM Anonymous

A brief scan of S. Kaufman's Pegasus posts reaveals the following: "White Supremacists": 3 references, "White Separatists": 5 references, and various disparaging references to Catholics, "militant Christians," and "NeoChristians."

One should keep in mind that labels are divisive. Ask yourself whether you're properly identifying a problem, or helping to create one. Our current government has worked hard to polarize this nation by convincing us how different we are.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America - there is the United States of America. There is not a black America and a white America and latino America and asian America - there's the United States of America." – Barack Obama

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

CastleHills Anonymous

There's only one way to solve this now, and we all know it:

1. Build a wall and stop further illegal immigrants.
2. Give amnesty to all the ones that are currently here.

We can't continue to let everyone in..esp if they might be lugging a dirty nuke in their luggage. But we can't pack up families that have been here 10, 20 years and send them home.

With this method, we could admit only as many laborers as we truly need.

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

CastleHills Anonymous

Sanders says, "I think it's funny how so many folks say "we can't let them in". In fact - we can't keep 'em out."

...that's where the gigantic, impenetrable wall comes in...

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

sailor4330 Anonymous

Kaufman: "I think it's funny how so many folks say "we can't let them in". In fact - we can't keep 'em out.

"At BEST, all we can do is to define how we will treat them AFTER they get here.

"For most of us, the answer is simple - give 'em a sandwich and a job."

RK: The US could close the border down----COMPLETELY. It's the height of naivete to think otherwise. Your inclusion that "for most of us the answer is simple," is a dim-witted atttempt to try to convince others you're in the majority, instead of the wee minority.

We'll be glad to send them to your house, so you can show your unparralled humanity by giving 'em a sandwich and a job.

And, while they're there and they move in about 60 others don't be surprised if your T.V. and other belongings somehow disappear.

Maybe you can pay their medical bills too and loan them your vehicle so they can get stewed to the gills, then drive down the middle of the road until they kill someone in a collision, as they have in high percentages in relation to their share of the population, more so than any other group in this country.

If it is one of your friends or family that is killed, I doubt you will be an advocate for them after that.

You've been brainwashed into believing that tribalizing our country with third world crime and poverety will somehow prevent nationalism from any one particular group and thereby make the country safer for you and your ilk.

Get educated on the subject. There's more anti-semitism among La Raza, Meecha, La Voz de Aztlan, etc., than all the tiny groups of so-called white supremacists combined.

You're supporting a situation that could spell big, big trouble for you.

If you don't see it now, you will in the near future, but you have to be bright enough to look for it, shrugging off the brainwashing you have received all your life.

Check into it. You have nothing to lose but your ignorance.

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

raven3 Anonymous

According to the Los Angeles Times, 40 percent of the workers in Los Angeles County are working for cash and not paying any direct taxes.

That translates to nearly 5 million people. (The newspaper also reports 300,000 of the "illegal" population live in garages).

The Times also says 95 percent of the warrants issued for suspected murders are for illegal aliens. Seventy five percent of the people on the most wanted list from the Los Angeles Police Department are here illegally. More than two-thirds of the births in the county are to illegal aliens on Medi-Cal, which are paid for by all of us.

In the county, 5.1 million people speak English while 3.9 million speak only Spanish. Twenty five percent of all inmates in California's overcrowded detention centers are Mexican citizens in this state illegally. Half of the gang members in the county are living here illegally.

Sixty percent of the occupants of federally funded housing are also "illegals."

Among those picking crops in L.A. Country only two percent are illegals. (The overwhelming number of those working in our fields are either citizens or have work visas. In other words they are here legally.)

The Times quotes Rice University professor, Donald Huddle's conclusions that immigration is costing taxpayers $70 billion, after subtracting taxes paid by immigrants minus services used.

He also says that illegals make up 29% of all federal inmates, althouth they represent only about 5% of the general population. We are receiving the dregs of Mexican society, encouraged to come her by corrupt Mexican officials who will not provide jobs for them, although Mexico is the wealthiest of all Latin countries. Officials are in the pay of the drug cartels, from the top on down.

The newspaper also reports Mexico regularly intercedes on the side of the defense in criminal cases involving illegal immigrants from their country.

According to published reports, "illegals" from Mexico send home $19 billion a year, which props up Mexico's very weak economy, so Mexico encourages a mass incursion into the US.

Democrats pick up lots of votes and workers from the alien population, particularly those from south of the border.

Many Republican contributors utilize the labor of illegal immigrants because they work for less than American workers and for the most part work harder with fewer complaints.

The result: neither party wants to tackle this problem. That's the real dilemma behind the illegal immigrant challenge. Both sides benefit from the influx, and if they back away, a major source of revenue disappears from their political coffers. So they sit on their hands hoping the problem will fix itself. In the meantime, the rest of us have to pay for medical care and welfare for people are here illegally, plus costs for courts, incarceration, and housing.

According to the Times, the overwhelming majority of "illegals" from south of the border are not picking our crops (the data shows only two percent are working in the fields). However, 29 percent of the illegal population from Mexico is on welfare.

The "lifetime impact" (taxes paid minus services used) for the average adult illegal immigrant from Mexico, is a "negative number according to Hubble.

Our government should convince "illegals" to return to Mexico and help that country turn itself around before they come here and demand we change our laws so they can fit in.

If all of the so-called illegals in this country returned to challenge their government, then life for all people south of the border would be enhanced. Because of massive corruption in Mexico, the last election almost produced another Hugo Chavez, who now controls Venezuela. The next one could very well elect this same leftist radical.

And for those naive posters who are not "up" on the subject, that's even scarier than our growing illegal alien population.

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

DC Anonymous

Keep your eyes open for the frostbacks before they invade your neighborhoods with "U"s, hard vowels and mandatory gay marriages!

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

sailor4330 Anonymous

"Sanders Kaufman" "One thing I notice about how folks line up on this immigration issue. The ones who support our Mexican brothers and sisters do so with courtesy and respect and under their own name."

RK: (Robert Kelly) Heh, heh, heh. You haven't addressed one single point on this thread with ANY kind of intelligent rebuttal, but instead resort to sniping childish comments about "brothers and sisters," describing people who dislike you intensely, unable to raise any points other than emotional rants that put you in the brain-numbed zombie class.

You're in the wee minority on illegal immigration, so when you speak of "our Mexican brothers and sisters" don't include any of the rest of us in your absurd ramblings.

I have many Hispanic friends here in Florida, especially Cuban, but they didn't sneak across the border with their hands out looking for freebies.

You're a loser, my man, and you're pursuing a losing cause.

If it's identification you desire, write to me at sailor4330@bellsouth.net and I'll give you all the identification you want.

I want to tell you about the ADL.

You have nothing to lose but your ignorance.

Put up or shut up.

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

raven3 Anonymous

Linda Muller, Minuteman Project, no date

Two members of the Minuteman Project attended an “Emergency immigration meeting” in San Bernardino coordinated by Armando Navarro of the National Alliance for Human Rights.

The reason for calling this meeting, according to NAHR, is that “Mexicano and Latino efforts to push for a comprehensive humane immigration reform at this time lack the requisite mobilization power to influence the now Democratic controlled Congress.”

The announcement for the meeting said, “Time is ticking and so if we are to be successful in pressuring the Democrats and Bush Administration to act on immigration reform, as a community must act now.

We need to ignite the fires of activism that produced last year’s historically unprecedented marches and mobilizations of millions of Mexicanos and Latinos.”

The meeting was held in a library meeting room and during introductions Minuteman Project National Spokesman Raymond Herrera and National Rally Coordinator Robin Hvidston said they were with the Minuteman Project. Navarro said even though he was barred from Minutemen meetings Herrera and Hvidston would be allowed to stay.

“He then made a comment about the Minutemen being racists,” Hvidston said. “I replied the Minutemen are multi-ethnic. He said if the Minutemen interrupted the meeting, he would have us removed. I said I was merely correcting his inaccurate statement.”

After referring to the Minutemen as racists, Navarro gave opening remarks. He talked about the recent ICE raids. Then the floor was open for comments. “I was astounded by the nonstop hate talk about ‘white’ people,” Hvidston said.

“There was talk of how poorly Latino children are doing in school. White people were blamed. Talk about raids at work sites by ICE. White people were blamed. Talk about not enough Hispanic school teachers. White people were blamed. Talk about imprisonment of Latinos. White people were blamed,” Hvidston recounted.

“People stood up and gave testimonials about white people being the cause of poor education, prison sentences, police brutality…. They used slang such as ‘gavachos’ to refer to white people.”

One man named Victor said he had just gotten back from Washington, DC. He said the Mexican congress members, who were recently in Washington, were not treated right. He said the Hispanic Caucus needs to do more for Latinos. Most of all, he said Latinos are disturbed that the new Democratic congress is focusing on Iraq rather than immigration reform and this had better change.

Navarro is planning a march for March 17th in San Bernardino. He said they will be calling on cities such as L.A. to join them. He said if civil disobedience is needed to stop any future ICE raids, so be it. One man stated that if guns and violence are needed, they should use violence to overwhelm the white people. He encouraged the community to take what they want by overwhelming and overpowering force.

Robin Hvidston believes the group is nervous because they still do not have amnesty, even with a Democratic majority in Congress. Raymond Herrera stated at the meeting that Navarro’s leadership is much needed in Mexico, to fix Mexico. Raymond believes that there is a Mexican Revolution taking place, but that it should move down to Mexico where it can do the most good.

Also in attendance at this February 13 meeting in San Bernardino were three staff members from Congressman Joe Baca’s office. Baca represents California’s 43rd District and he is a member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. According to Hvidston, most of the attendees do not believe Baca is doing enough to help the Latino community. “They stated repeatedly, that in the ‘Inland Empire’ there are too many Republican congress members.”

The National Alliance for Human Rights describes itself as a network of leaders, activists, scholars and organizations committed to the promotion of human rights, social justice and political empowerment of the Latino community in the United States, but as the reader can determine, they're nothing but a hate group.

Original article

(Posted on February 20, 2007)

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

raven3 Anonymous

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

1 year, 5 months ago

raven3 Anonymous

Mike Orren Staff raven3, our terms of use forbids posting the full text of copyrighted articles. I can't find a source on your first comment above, so we're letting that one slide for now.

The report was made by an individual that attended the meeting and was circulated on the internet to people who are interested in the immigration issue, so it was not a copyright infringement.

I have a queston however, on the following comments:

"Sanders Kaufman Verified Thanks, Mike. I have this same conversation a lot on Usenet (news:tx.politics). For some odd reason, an anonymous poster there always follows up my posts with this kind of lengthy, copyrighted articles - which are often not even relevant to the discussion.

"I'm a troll-magnet and I post under my own name, so it's a sure-bet that some of my favorite abusive posters will be here soon."

Raven: Do you have some kind of friendship to this poster? If so, aren't you supposed to be unbiased? He's thanking you for deleting a post that was absolutely in line with the subject being discussed, pretending as if he is unjustly criticized by someone he refers to as a troll, implying that it is misguided, unprincipled people that follow him around posting articles that have nothing to do with the matter at hand.

Your point is well-taken about copyright material, and I will post no more of it, but I take exception to your posting a comment from this person that makes it appear as if you're doing the necessary work to keep unjust, irrelevant comments from being directed at him, thereby giving his obnoxious statements credibility, when he has been deluged with factual matter he is unable to refute, so he resorts to thanking you as if you are all in the "good old boy network" against trolls, when the only person on here who has labelled unjust names is this guy who wants everyone to believe anybody who is against illegal immigration is a white supremacist, because he has been raised and propagandized to see a white supremacist behind every tree.

His remarks were completely out-of-line and shouldn't have been posted.

Is it too much to ask you to remain neutral?

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

sailor4330 Anonymous

"Sanders Kaufman Verified "Thanks, Mike. I have this same conversation a lot on Usenet (news:tx.politics). For some odd reason, an anonymous poster there always follows up my posts with this kind of lengthy, copyrighted articles - which are often not even relevant to the discussion. I'm a troll-magnet and I post under my own name, so it's a sure-bet that some of my favorite abusive posters will be here soon."

Robert Kelly: Well, so people that disagree with you are trolls that follow you around, eh? Paranoi anybody? It looks to me, after reading the above, that everybody that rebutted your assertions had something intelligent to contribute, yet you haven't offered one single intelligent point to rebut anything that has been written, but instead have made insulting references to "white supremacists," "trolls," etc., all in place of logical argument.

Why do you feel as if people are "following you around?" What have you posted that isn't childish rants? I've seen no figures or facts from you in rebuttal to the information presented here.

And I doubt that "Mike" cares whether you thank him or not. You pretend as if you are on the winning team and Mike is a part of it, standing by to keep the unreasonable people from making comments you deem irrelevant, though they pointedly reflect very accurately highlights of the illegal alien crises in this country.

Polls reveal 81% of the public are against illegal immigration, including 40% of Hispanics, so for you to disingenuously pretend as if you are the majority and the rest of us are trolls that follow you around because your points are so poignant and devastatingly accurate we are forced to resort to harrassment.

You answered nothing that was presented, and resorted to name calling, because you are unable to argue a point. In answer to logical facts and figures you criticized people who didn't use their actual names as handles. When I gave you mine, plus my email address you refused to respond to me, but instead thanked Mike for running interference for you, pretending as if you were the unjust recipient of matters that have no relevance to the debate.

When are you going to write me? What are you afraid of? Surely it isn't the truth is it?

Your rebuttal to logical presentations was a complaint about identity. Well, you got it. Now what is your reluctance?

You have nothing to lose but your ignorance.

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jamesbaker Anonymous

The Spectrum News, St. George, Utah, is reporting that identify theft is the fastest growing financial crime in Utah, with nearly 10 million U.S. citizens victimized each year.

According to Utah Assistant Attorney General Richard Hamp, there are 380,000 illegal immigrants in the in Utah. He estimates that 95 percent of them are using other people's Social Security numbers, which they stole themselves or bought from counterfeiters.

Many of the numbers belong to U.S. children.

Hamp has been prosecuting these cases for the past two years with a majority of the suspects being charged with third degree felony counts of identity fraud and forgery.

Since many illegals move about considerably using various aliases, it's very difficult to apprehend them when the theft is discovered. Some U.S. citizens have had their I.D.'s stolen by as many as 6 different illegal aliens.

Victims have endured notices from courts on arrests for failure to appear; some are unable to obtain jobs because numerous arrests appear on their records; and a very large number are being harrassed by the IRS, threatened with liens against their properties for failure to pay taxes they don't owe.

The situation has reached crises proportions.

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jamesbaker Anonymous

"Sanders Kaufman" "I hear you about the fact that identity theft is a serious problem... but it's not the wetbacks who are doing it."

You insult everybody don't you? Now you're calling the illegal Mexicans "Wetbacks."

CNN, Fox News, and even the three networks have reported on identity factories by Hispanics that are raided and broken up, yet you seem to think all that's necessary to do is deny something or assert something and that's sufficient to make it true.

You have no credibility on this site and your feeble attempts at telling lies isn't fooling anyone.

Why don't you buzz off buzzy?

1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )