Carjackers in Pleasant Grove go on spree of stupid

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

I hope the reason the location of this story is said to be 'Pleasant Grove' is for the correct reason. Pleasant Grove indeed being a neighborhood in Southeast Dallas bordered by Bruton Rd., Jim Miller Rd, I-175, Prairie Creek. A 2 x3 mile neighborhood, one of 7 in southeast Dallas. My concern is when 'Pleasant Grove' is incorrectly used as the generic name FOR Southeast Dallas, as has been done for decades, which has the effect to place stories, many of them criminal, in a neighborhood nowhere related, thus maligning an innocent area, lowering property values based on public perception, etc. The other question/concern is: had this story taken place elsewhere in Southeast Dallas, would that sector's correct neighborhood been named (Parkdale, Buckner Terrace, Urbandale, Piedmont, Temberton Hills, Pleasant Mound) or incorrectly as 'Pleasant Grove'. And if when it is correct to say this happened in PG, as is the case with this story, why use the neighborhood name unless that is always the case. For instance, if a crime takes place off of Henderson, near, say, The Old Monk or Cuba Libre, would you say this happened in Cockrell Hills?

Sanders Kaufman, says:

I'm glad the neighborhood was identified by name. It's important that folks in Dallas who live outside of Pleasant Grove know what's happening inside of Pleasant Grove - lest they make the mistake of thinking that's a safe neighborhood.

If the folks in PG want to have a better reputation, they'll have to earn it.

I understand that the folks in the Grove don't want folks talking about all the bad things that happen in that 'hood, but the best way to get them to stop talking about the bad things is to give them some good things to say.

So instead of asking news agencies to not report the name of the location, start a neighborhood watch or something.

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

The issue here...and perhaps I was not clear...is this: I wrote a definitive OP-ED for the Dallas Morning News (July 16, 2005 ViewPoints: "Getting Our Lines Crossed") that pinpointed that for decades, our local media had incorrectly used the name of a relatively small Southeast Dallas neighborhood named Pleasant Grove as the GENERIC name FOR all of Southeast Dallas, when in fact PG is one of 7 SE Dallas neighborhoods. Southeast Dallas being south of I-30, west of South Dallas/Trinity Forest, west of Mesquite-Balch Springs and north of I-20.)

Case in point: Twice in the last week a DMNews story identified a crime as taking place IN Pleasant Grove that in fact took place many miles away, and was unrelated to Pleasant Grove at all. One May 19 was about the SMU student and the suspected drug dealer's home, which although in Buckner Terrace just south of RL Thorton Frwy. is far closer to Lakewood than Pleasant Grove, was nonetheless said to be his PG home. Then Friday May 25 , another story about racist unrest takes place NOT in Pleasant Grove as was reported in the headline, but rather, in Parkdale, the northwest most neighborhood in Southeast Dallas whereas PG is the second most southern several miles away.

You see, by making this ongoing cavalier mistake, the city at large believes, as did the above reader, that PG is the scene of Dallas' most notorious ongoing crime, when in fact, it is not. PG has it's problems, certainly, but to attribute ongoing the crime stories that take place elsewhere in the city (SE Dalsas is apprx.30% of Dallas) to have happened in "Pleasant Grove" is in itself criminal to those living there, their property values, esteem, the works.

Fair is fair. That's what media METRO maps are for. As for this actual story, it ended, yes, in PG. But my point was, aside from the above, was: would the writer have identified the neighborhood in SE Dallas correctly had it been outside that 2 X3 mile rectangle properly called Pleasant Grove? And if you are going to use a specific neighborhood name in one article, then why not use such neighborhood designation in other articles if not all, to give uniform approach to reportage?

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

Actually, terryorze, every neighborhood IN Southeast Dallas was annexed, it's just that Pleasant Grove was the first. There is, other than that, absolutely no other distinction. It's just that, because PG was the first, the system of calling that entire area 'Pleasant Grove' persists. It was never correct to do so, whereas, with Oak Cliff, it is, because Oak Cliff was a whole other story. So you can have neighborhoods IN Oak Cliff because it is a separate part of a city. Whereas it's the complete opposite with PG. PG is a neighborhood IN SE Dallas, not the NAME for SE Dallas. It's an unimportant distinction/error for many who say 'who cares', and I understand that. But it is a gross inaccuracy that I have set out to correct, beginning with a well researched piece I did two years ago for which I was recognized, that lead to the police dept., the TV and print media realigning their inaccurate city map coverage.

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

The damn oddity is, Mike, I have been trying to get it off the archives and today I was unable. It's weird, because until recently, when you 'Googled' me, it was one of the top five. After Mem. Day, when my editors are back, I will make a play to retrieve it. And yes, trust me, I would be delighted to republish it, because, for a while, it changed everything, but I have sensed as of late, it's a problem returning with regularity.

I never set out to make this a mission, but when I realized how property values were deflated because of the misreported crimes attributed to PG, while areas where the events actually occured (like Buckner Terrace) were showing no homicides, etc., this issue got under my skin. And I'm itching to make it go away.

PS: A recent DMN Op-Ed: "Not as Dangerous as You Think" – by Timothy Bray, showed that the lion's share of crime in the city was coming from a relative small group of areas. Namely around Fair Park and south, the northern part of Oak Cliff going toward and including West Dallas on to Irving, and ironically, a strand of Royal Lane off of I-35. Overall crime has dropped precipitously in SE Dallas under SE Division Chief Patricia Paulhill, and no neighborhood in SE Dallas (including Pleasant Grove) was listed in the DMN Op-Ed study cited as pinpointing Dallas' highest crime areas.

Sanders Kaufman, says:

Crime is definitely an ongoing, serious issue in PG. The community is chock-full of ex-cons - so even the ones who obey the laws are law-breakers.

I went to a party in PG a couple of years ago. The guy who owned the house was an avid fan of gun shows. After he got thoroughly drunk, he decided to show off his collection of illegal and barely legal weapons.

He had this really awesome, semi-automatic that could fire just as fast as he could pull the trigger. He had a good olde time firing it in the air and saying, "I'll bet everyone thinks it's fully automatic".

He had his daughter at the party - an adorable little 2-year-old. He enjoyed teaching her to play with guns, too.

In my experience, that attitude prevails throughout the Grove.

Sanders Kaufman, says:

I think it's naive to think that because there are a lot of crimes AROUND Pleasant Grove, that Pleasant Grove is not a part of the problem.

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

My question to Sandy Kaufman: I have zero doubts about your story, but having said that: Are you sure you were actually in Pleasant Grove? No one, make no mistake, is saying here that PG is Lakewood. Remember: My original point is that PG is Bruton to I-175, Prairie Creek to Jim Miller Rd., A 2 x 3 mile area with the neighborhood name of Pleasant Grove. Not the name for Southeast Dallas, but rather, one of 7 neighborhoods IN SE Dallas.

I live north of PG at the northeast corner of the Trinity Forest and have an idyllic life for 20 years on my hill in my neighborhood, Piedmont, which has a far lower per capita crime rate than Uptown. Or for that matter, my home I sold off of Knox-Henderson (where I grew up).

No one here is trying to 'defend' PG. I simply want the reportage of what happened in PG to be what happened in PG, (which Pegassus did) not miles away as is chronically the case; in unrelated areas but reported as happening there, simply because people do not know (nor care)that Pleasant Grove is not like Oak Cliff, the name of a part of the city but rather, like Winnetka Heights is in Oak Cliff...a neighborhood in SE Dallas.

I'm all about facts, and all about fairness. As I told SE Division Chief Paulhill: If I called you Deneice for 50 years, that would not make it your name.

Happy Memorial Day. Over and out. Thanks.

Sanders Kaufman, says:

Yes - it was Pleasant Grove - just South of Sceyene(sp?) and Military Pkwy.

Speaking of Piedmont, I also have a Piedmont story.

A friend on that street had just moved in and filled his back yard and garage with dirt bikes, lawn mowers, go carts and various half-built projects.

He knew that the Grove was a bad place, so he put one of those things on his little 4' chain-link fence that electrifies the thing. He came home from work one day to find his stuff gone. He found most of it in a pile down the alley, where the thieves were staging it for pickup - but some of it was just plain gone.

Now his fence is 8' tall - and is a real eye-sore.

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

Actually, where you describe you were was in fact north of Pleasant Grove; If you were just south of Scyene Rd and Military, you were in east PLEASANT MOUND, very close to Mesquite/ Balch Springs. (Pleasant Mound:East of Buckner, north of Bruton, west of Mesquite, north to Forney Rd.) Not Pleasant Grove. Makes one wonder where you were when you say you were in 'Piedmont'. Thanks for helping make my point.

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

Dear terryorze : This original 1967 piece was written by an oldtimer, Mrs. Maxwell, who was well known as a local along with Max Goldblatt. The 1967 book quoted is valid strictly as a time capsule when Dallas was under 100,000 and SE Dallas was still very small town local, as my research for my July 2005 piece discussed. It was coloquial slang used by oldtimers because PG was the first town annexed, followed by Urbandale, etc. So when all of SE Dallas was only consisting of one town annexexed, oldtimers naturally called that part of the city collectively Pleasant Grove. 40 years later, it is hardly appropriate, as it is simply one of many areas ultimately annexed, including later the most southern, Pemberton Hills. This is like showing 15th century maps of Spain. But I appreciate your time. It's just 2007, and this is now the 7th largest city in the USA, so old time folky reference reporting doesn't cut it. In fact this same author placed this information on Wikipedia. Postscript: Mrs. Maxwell was a lovely person, and as I said from an old original PG family. She was what we call folk historians, not a journalist.

Sanders Kaufman, says:

"Historically Correct"? Yeah - I guess if you go far enough back in history, you can find another name to call a place.

So like - those of us who hate that Bush calls himself a Texan can just call ourselves Mexican, and pretend he was never our state's governor.

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

Okay. Look, in all due respect, this is really all quite simple, and I'll summarize it once and for all if I might.

Once upon a time, 60 years ago, before there was a Thornton I-30 Frwy (it was a railroad) southeast of Dallas (as documented in the historical time capsule Lisa Maxwell post)a rural town called Pleasant Grove was annexed. Per her post, subsequently, Dallas also annexed other independent jurisdictions, notably the town of Urbandale which was actually north of Pleasant Grove as it is today, approximately 2 miles north. After that came Parkdale, then Pleasant Mound and lastly Piedmont followed years later by the most southern Pemberton Hills and the most northern added last, Buckner Terrace. Ms. Maxwell is correct across the board except for this; no one that was annexed to Dallas after PG was a bit happy at being lumped into being called collectively Pleasant Grove. Why would they? They were independent towns annexed to DALLAS not annexed by or to Pleasant Grove. It was only those old timers, as I said, those who were already middle aged in the 50s and 60s and certainly 70s who insisted on calling what became (through consolidation annexation) properly called Southeast Dallas...calling it collectively Pleasant Grove was a thorn in the side of every other hamlet annexed.

Why would, say, my area neighborhood, Piedmont, have aligned itself either in concept or by name with what was simply the first of many towns annexed, in this case the first, Pleasant Grove? All but PG apparently remained independent neighborhoods in Dallas after being annexed, whereas before, they were independent townlets, what today we call suburbs. Think. This isn't brain surgery. Think as if today, say, Dallas was able to annex, say, Plano, and later Richardson, Carrollton and Framers Branch, and suddenly that part of Dallas was called Plano and the neighborhoods within it were called Carrollton and FB and Richardson. That would make those who lived in FB and Richardson and Carrollton furious. Because they were not annexed to Plano, but rather, to Dallas. And so those in Parkdale and Urbandale and Piedmont have been for more than 1'2 a century and to a lesser extent, has been Pleasant Mound which got absorbed and forgotten. (People living in Pleasant Mound are many times unaware they live in Pleasant Mound or that there was or IS such a place. I simply tell them, look on your deeds, etc. And Voila'.

Churches are often labeled Pleasant Grove (especially black Pentecostal), for reasons that are simple. They were unaware that their church is in Buckner Terrace or PM or wherever. Why would they know otherwise when no one tells them otherwise and the myth that the south eastern sector was EVER properly called collective Pleasant Grove was a marketing myth propagated by PG town leaders in the 50s, and later The Pleasant Grove Chamber of Commerce.....and yes, further entrenched in the minds by articles like the one that ran 40 years ago by Lisa Maxwell.

It's very simple. Pleasant Grove was the first and largest southeast sector townlet to be annexed to Dallas and become the first of many what is now southeast Dallas neighborhoods. Only those from the original PG or later being promoted under the SE sector marketing umbrella of the PG Chamber ever labeled those later annexed as being part of PG. If you stop and 1/2/3 this in your mind, it is clear that this was a power grab originally, and later a marketing umbrella area by the PG Chamber of Commerce as an area business tool, never as an actual name of 30% of the city as Southeast Dallas is to have become. It's an old term used improperly in a time when Dallas is, as I said, the 7th largest city in the USA, and when neighborhoods that were once independent towns (Piedmont was a private ranch) wish to have their proper history and names respected and recognized. And why not? Since The Great Trinity Forest is bounded north by Parkdale, North-Northeast by Piedmont, central east by Pleasant grove, south central Pemberton Hills. That, in the future will be meaningful.

I grew up in the Knox-Henderson neighborhood of Cockrell Hills adjacent to McCommas Heights, etc. At that time, all of everything was labeled (incorrectly) East Dallas....including Lakewood. You're darn right people want the proper names of their neighborhoods known and respected. That's why all the neighborhoods in Southeast Dallas except ironically, Pleasant Grove, have neighborhood Associations that have paid dearly for the Street Sign post Toppers that identify their neighborhood names, all over Dallas. You'll see this all over Dallas. And in this quadrant, no less.

As for your nice but real objection that this error in Lisa Maxwell's folksy overview, 40 years in a city like Dallas' life is dog years. In fact, 10 years ago there was no such part of the city known as 'Uptown'. 'Uptown is where my high school resides. 'North Dallas' which was once IN 'North Dallas'. Context is important, logic is key (my Plano analogy) and fairness and respect for other neighborhoods and sectors and their history...the true history, not half-truth fostering endless malapropism...like when the reader above said he was at a party in PG when in fact he was in Pleasant Mound. Isn't it said that the homeowner was probably never made aware? We cannot abdicate this city's history to folklore and amnesia.

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

PS: I'm a Dallas native. Here's some alternative light reading regarding Southeast Dallas, my neighborhood, Piedmont.

Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Opinion: ViewpointsRawlins Gilliland: The treasure that is the Great Trinity Forest ... Rawlins Gilliland of Dallas is a National Endowment poet and regular commentator for ... www.dallasnews.com/.../dws/dn/opinion... - 118k - Cached - Similar pages

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

TO terryorze: My last word, please. Yes, it will change, because it is an error, and I am in the media, and I have the facts. And besides; 1/2 of all the people in Dallas were either born here or moved here in the last 8 years. They are clueless where anything is.

After my Op-Ed ran July 16, 2005, 1) the name of the police division was changed from being called the PG Station to the Southeast Division. (Only 7% of their precinct is PG and the station is in Pemberton Hills) 2) The DMN Metro maps were changed to reflect what I have shared with you. The recent errors are with those who admit they did not look at their own maps(!) 3) Channel 8 then and recently Fox 4 met with me to get up to speed on accurate terms and area designation re: Southeast Dallas. (They …anchorpersons Baron James and Steve Egger even call me to check occasionally) Rarely do they use the term. 4) Neighborhood Homeowner Associations representing Buckner Terrace, Parkdale, Urbandale and Piedmont have applied for and got city recognition for approved street sign identity neighborhood signage. 5) Inaccurate signage along Buckner that was on street signs saying 'Main Street Pleasant Grove' were removed. The PG Chamber had placed them there with city approval which was revoked.

No myth is impossible to undo nor misunderstanding unlikely corrected. The worst perpetrators these days, as I said, are diehard old timers, or those who grew up there. And ironically, the SE Division police, who are good people but do not live here. I met with their boss Chief Patricia Paulhill, and this is being changed. But I have met hundreds of SE Dallas persons in my 20 years here who have been angry about this issue for 50 years. I somehow became the one to make the difference. I already have, but I have miles to go, and I am committed, because this inaccurate reporting has genuine impact on 1) property vales 2) Crime stats 3) school funding 4) businesses. And oh yes...the truth. “Just the facts, m’am”.