Two years and counting in Oak Cliff

JW Richard, says:

Shawn, as another Oak Cliff resident, I live in a spot where there are at least three neighborhood organizations OUTSIDE of the churches in the area. This would be a great way to gather people of like mind that are interested in making neighborhood changes but may not be interested in church.

On a side note, I do find it humorous that the picture used as a part of your logo is a building in "North" Oak Cliff :-)

Michael Davis, says:

As mentioned in the post, he's not talking about North Oak Cliff. That's always been a separate area that which includes Kessler Park and other pockets of affluence.

Shawn IS working on issues that affect the rest of Oak Cliff by continuing to write and be active in issues that matter to the community that surrounds him. Or should I say us, as I live here in Oak Cliff as well.

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

It’s like a second job explaining Dallas. Today's lesson; Oak Cliff. Which yes, by definition is 'across the Trinity'. (River. Try to keep up here). Therein, as Mike points out, lies initially North Oak Cliff, then continuing south is central Oak Cliff proper (Bishop Arts, etc) then west of that, West Oak Cliff (Think Hampton going to Loop 12 en route to Grand Prairie) and then South Oak Cliff which is no less an actual name for a sector of this city than East Dallas or Oak Lawn/Uptown. East of I-30, north of I-20, west of I-45.

And PS: North of Oak Cliff (think Singleton) and south of Irving lies West Dallas. PS: East of the river and/or I-45 lies South Dallas (east of South Oak Cliff and south of Thornton Freeway/I-30) whose eastern border is the Trinity Forest. And east of that...east of the Forest, lies Southeast Dallas which deadends then into Mesquite/Balch Springs. Voila! That's the 'Southern Sector primer.

Got all that?

Scott Doyle, says:

People move b/c of their church's locale? How hardcore are you into [insert denomination]?

Scott Doyle, says:

I was actually pretty surprised to see where the UNT-Dallas campus is located. I'll still stick with North Dallas - y'all have fun trying to enrich the lives of people who are fine the way things are. =)

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

Scott, the placement of the new UNT campus is in one of the most beautiful pieces of real estate in Dallas County, at the southern base of South Dallas at I-20, and to the west of the southern most Trinity Forest on a hilly set of escarpments.

The truth is, few have any clue when we are talking anything west or south of DT and east or south of _1-30. I have lived decades in southeast Dallas, enjoying a high quality of living, a lower crime rate than most who live here in North Dallas, etc. Oak Cliff is a myriad of sectors within a sector and so too for South and most certainly Southeast Dallas.

Ignorance is bliss when your wife is having an affair with the gardener; not when one is discussing multiple co-existing realities of Dallas living.

Saluting those who are trying to draw attention to the possible instead of the posturable like Michael Davis and Sawn Williams: As opposed to the following:

Experience tells me that the smug highly opinionated people talking Dallas' quality of life issues, and their own feelings for their city life here, are generally formulated initially by the real estate person who sold you your house (who was also from somewhere else) when you moved here, and so too those with whom you run, all of whom also tend to have moved here relatively recently, and are by nature clueless about any but their own 'territory'. This is not a crime, but it's dull as hell when one is trying to have a two-way conversation about the panorama that is this (home town) Dallas.

My guess is that in 20-30 years, much of North Dallas will have become the least desirable zips in town. I mean, I can recall not that long ago when the Bachman Lake area, and Webbs Chapel/Northwest Hwy areas were the MOST coveted status 'new' happening places to buy and dine. Cities are like looking out the window of a train car......the view of the world changes constantly. Latest example: the 'Cedars' where my family lived when they first moved here. It was THE place to live for affluent Jews. (My parent were Epicopalean) Then, after WW2, that was a multi-family disaster waiting to happen. And the result is it became the ghetto. Pure and simple, the entire time I was growing up...And now, it is in flux. Who knows how that will play out. Witness the grand evolution of Deep Ellum from the ashes to 'hip-happening' to struggling and on life supports.

And PS: I grew up just about 5 doors from the 'Strip' of restaurant dreams in East Dallas........the Henderson Porch/Cuba Libre/Fireside Pies, etc. The entire time I lived there...20 plus years...it was the 'wrong side of the tracks', East Dallas was the pejorative term (like Pleasant Grove later became) for a low life sleeze arena (it was not but in places) and I had to listen to all that posturing. Now the house I grew up in is selling for a half million, that commercial strip that was, for 40 years, a kiss of death locale (we buried a million restaurants and shops) is now very 'in'. If you need any other reality check updates from Rawlins, do not hesitate to ask.

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

I wanted to make sure that the way I said that sentence about Michael Davis and Shawn Williams is clear: That was saying THEY are discussing realities and the possible, as opposed to POSTURING as I describe others as routinely doing. Re-reading the above post, I was unsure if that was clear. I consider what they both write to be part of the solutions.

Scott Doyle, says:

I grew up in a small town near McKinney, and my parents live in the sticks. So, I'm already partial to the northern side of the metroplex simply b/c we never ventured south of Dallas (and never all the way into Dallas, really).

No doubt many areas of North Dallas will be less desirable in 20-30 years...I doubt I'll be living here at the time, anyhow. I think one of the bigger issues with growth up north is that businesses seem to be following suit. Not that y'all care...I'm sure you'd rather revamp what you've got than worry about a huge influx.

What are good places to eat down south, btw?

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

Clay, FYI, I agree. My comment is about how a place is dead and about to be buried, then goes through a rennaisance and becomes hot and 'in', and then gets dropped by the masses of flocking see-and-be-seen types.

That said, Deep Ellum has not one but three (or is it four) eras in the last 20 years; the first was the Club Claearview era of migrating happening rent-a-space raves. Late 80s. Into the Greenwich Village heyday of the 90s, with Club DaDa going strong and Deep Ellum Cafe a hip alternative mainstay restaurant and the creme de la....Eduardo's, later reincarnated as the Monica's Aca Y Alla, where every Sunday night you could find me dancing salsa for 4 hours. For 9 years.

But then it became the younger, rougher, rowdier, lowder, ruder....... and the edge went from being hip to being threatened. Add to this some highly publicized violent incidents, and voila.

Now what I sense in Deep Ellum is the regenerating aftermath. I'm a huge fan of the Angry Dog Bar (try the BLT), Twisted Root Burgers that I learned about on Pegasus...and of course the staples, Cafe Brazil and the venerable Monica's.

So my 'life supports' reference was to the huge number of businesses that folded that are missed, when the fortunes, however generated, came and went. What you love about it is valid. But those who want a sophisticated romp in the sexy twilight of alternative memories, it is not the crowd controled teens on Saturday night I miss.

Susan Thornton, says:

Scott,

Tejano, Morelia, Hattie's, Cosmo Rouge (fabulous Sunday brunch with bottomless mimosas), Hunky's, Grill 400 (friendly bar and great fried catfish), coffee at Nodding Dog, the new Tillman's, Chan Thai, Beckley's Brewhouse, Kavala. Those are just the places I know, and there are many more that others, I'm sure, can add. Come down and see how nice it is here. 1st Thursday at Bishop Arts is tomorrow - the shops will be open later and wine will be served.

And, as far as North OC being Kessler, etc. ("affluent"), I live in El Tivoli Place just north of Davis and west of Hampton, a WWII neighborhood built for the officers at the naval station in Grand Prairie during the war. Not affluent by any stretch of the imagination, but a true multicultural neighborhood where I feel very safe.

Shawn Williams, says:

To be honest, I wanted to get my thoughts out close to the 2 year anniversary and as long as this post was, (very long for me) in doesn't cover half of my true experience in South Oak Cliff.

I mean Kiest Park is nice, but it could be so much better. AAFES (http://www.aafes.com) is one of the biggest employers in my immediate neighborhood, why not more? Why are Burger King and Williams Chicken the only place close for their employees to eat? Don't get me started on Kimball High School (or Carter).

One of the hidden gems in Oak Cliff is Dallas National Golf Club. I (and most of you) couldn't get withing a mile of there if I wanted to, unless Avery Johnson took me.

I'm glad I live here, but it's not easy or convenient. I live here mostly because I feel like the kids in the area need to see positive images, like a man raising his family, in order to aspire to do the same. Believe it or not some kids within a 2 mile radius of me go days without seeing a husband, a wife, and a child/children.

And finally, I had no idea Mike and the gang would run this where they did or I may have put it together a little differently. It was a scattershoot at best, but an honest scattershoot to say the least. And the point about the North Oak Cliff image on my header image is well taken, but funny.