Thursday, October 4, 2007
Scared Irving immigrants removing children from school
Updated 10:05 a.m., October 4, 2007
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Mexican immigrants are running so fast from Irving they're lifting their little girls into the air cartoon-like.
IRVING — It seems Irving is causing a nice little mass hysteria with their infamous immigration policy. Immigrant parents are rapidly removing their children from Irving schools despite assurances from Irving Mayor Herbert Gears that they don't have anything to worry about unless they've committed a crime.
However, many immigrants (and non-immigrants) feel they're being targeted, as Irving is still reporting more than 300 immigrants a month to federal authorities for deportation.
Posted by Alex B.
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Comments
misterh1 Anonymous
Note to author: Irving does not have the authority to deport anyone. Irving is simply reporting illegal activity to the appropriate federal authority. Your statement that "Irving is deporting more than 300 immigrants a month" is factually incorrect.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Pavel Lishin Verified
I don't know if they fixed it since you commented, but it says "...reporting more than 300..."
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Alex Bentley Staff
Sorry, didn't comment earlier -- yes, I reworded it after that comment.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
heyshay Anonymous
welcome to America. Play by our rules or go, bottom line!
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bemused Anonymous
If people enter the nation legally, they have nothing to fear. If they enter illegally, they should be penalized. The principle is simple. By definition, an "illegal immigrant" has broken the law. Consequences should follow.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
Our fears have surfaced - Chris Joooooooooones (who?) has views in other threads now that his tantrums have been cut off.
By definition, if we moved everyone out who wasn't supposed to be here our regional economy would entirely collapse. I dig the concept - if they screw up and get arrested, they're done. Otherwise, let 'em work.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bemused Anonymous
Then our regional economy, Mr. Doyle, is fundamentally corrupt. Don't seek to justify a practice merely because it has persisted unpenalized for years and thus seems acceptable. If we don't uphold immigration law, how can we justify enforcing any laws at all? The absence of law will collapse our culture. The removal of criminals will not.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
Like you say, Chris, it's not the absence of law - it's lack of enforcement. However, this is a classic example of spirit vs. letter of the law.
I'm not saying we shouldn't tighten enforcement on people coming in today, but booting people out who have been here for years with no issues when there is a mutual need is ridiculous. If they start getting rowdy, load 'em up and ship 'em out. Pointing out that we'd all be broke isn't justifying the practice so much as justifying reasonable means of enforcement in the future rather than mass deportation of anybody who doesn't have a green-card or better.
Before you respond, anybody who's been keeping up knows your stance on pretty much any issue that could possibly have a law/regulation/code to fall back on. We've also seen how the greater good of a community takes back-seat to your personal preferences. If you hate immigrants and deem us all corrupt for not wanting to ship every last illegal outta here, that's fine - spare us 50+ comments on the issue.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bemused Anonymous
"Before you respond, anybody who's been keeping up knows your stance on pretty much any issue that could possibly have a law/regulation/code to fall back on. We've also seen how the greater good of a community takes back-seat to your personal preferences."
I do envy your pithy mastery of generalization, as well as your talent for introducing the completely extraneous to a discussion. Have you ever written scripts for Oprah?
Let's reward those who ignore immigration law and penalize those who obey it. While we're at it, let's praise substandard contractors who seek unskilled laborers for the construction of the first-rate housing in this state. Also, let's throw money away on bilingual education programs that only discourage people from assimilation. And we'll think about enforcement when we get around to it.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
What in the hell are you blabbering about?
Nobody's talking about penalizing peeps who obey laws - they're getting shipped out b/c they broke both immigration law and a law which any citizen would get arrested for.
Nobody's praising anyone, either - contractors aren't substandard simply for picking up illegals, there's plenty to do on a jobsite that nobody has to be skilled for. And bilingual education actually encourages assimilation, yes? As in, we understand you only speak Spanish but want you to learn the English as you grow up. Seems this is optimal for everyone. Is there anything you don't hate, Chris?
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bemused Anonymous
Regardless of my efforts to superintend your thinking, Mr. Doyle, you invaribly admit the odious to it.
We are penalizing law-abiding citizens by tolerating illegal entry into the nation. Further, unskilled workers are doing a great deal more on construction sites than merely removing refuse and washing windows. And I categorically disagree that bilingual education encourages assimilation. It is an economic drain on public education promoted by ill-informed administrators, and it allows immigrants to postpone assimilation or completely evade it.
People should know English before they get here. If parents speak English, there's no excuse for their children not to. Were these standards upheld, our public schools would not be burdened with catering to cross-cultural demands. But that's the problem: We are without standards and are reverting to a pre-colonial disarray.
Bemused will admit to liking one thing: Radiohead.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
To go as far as stating that we're penalizing citizens for not tightening enforcement of immigration law is ludicrous - penalizing implies we're actively punishing citizens, which obviously is not the case. These days it's not so much the tolerance of illegal entry, rather it's tolerance of illegal residence. From what I can tell, we've been taking measures to reduce illegal entry and are just now catching up on illegal residence through such policies as Irving PD reporting them.
Let me get this straight, Chris: you're pissed off that illegals are here, and hopefully you realize that we're not going to deport every last one of them - yet, you're opposed to a program designed for assimilation b/c you feel it doesn't do so at a rate you're comfortable with? How else would these peeps learn English? Obviously if their parents know English the kids are well on their way, pretty sure this is designed for the ones whose parents don't hablan ingles.
I don't necessarily disagree with your stance on learning English, btw. If they can't learn through the bilingual education and don't bother to pick it up otherwise, they probably couldn't read, write, speak and understand English words used in everyday communication (which is relatively what's required to become nationalized, iirc). However, I don't think we should do away with a program designed to help people who aren't leaving simply b/c it requires funding. If it's proven ineffective, work on why rather than scrap it. I'd sooner correct the realistic issue than throw a fit as to why we're not deporting. Simple fact is that while people should know our language before coming here, many don't...and won't if we ignore them.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
sgtmajorbrad Anonymous
I think we ought to teach these little illegal aliens enough English to read and comprehend if you're illegal then go home and stay there!
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bemused Anonymous
Aside from the completely academic approach applied to the learning of Latin or Classical Greek (which scholars master exclusively for purposes of translation), there is only one way to become fluent in a living language in a reasonable amount of time: complete immersion! Abandon your native tongue, scold your children for making use of it, and speak only English once you arrive in the U.S.
No, the preceding view is not fascist, racist, or ethnocentric. It is incumbent upon immigrants to adapt to the existing culture. America applied this standard for centuries, and it worked quite well.
I remain steadfast in my view that we are "penalizing" citizens by permitting illegal immigrants to remain in the nation. (Note that "to penalize" means also to place someone in a position of disadvantage.) Our quality of life is diminished by the steady influx of unskilled individuals. The fastest-growing portion of our population is also the most impoverished and least educated.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rawlins Gilliland Verified
I'm ready for 'bemused' to become fluent in the cultural region he clearly moved to. We are not savage natives waiting to be elevated through the teachings of evangelistic immigrant (that would be you) pilgrims. I see little indication you will 'assimilate' because you are incapable of seeing the region you currently live in as anything other that misguided, primitive and a rustic flawed not-yet-civilized tribal hodgepodge.
In other words: This is not the Hawaiian Islands and you are not a Mormon missionary. Nor are you Cortez. I'm thinking Pia Zadora. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bemused Anonymous
It may stun you to learn, my preemptive Gilliand, that I am a native Texan and have spent the majority of my life here. Yes, I have also lived elsewhere, but I am not attempting to censure a state with which I am unfamiliar. Also, I don't see illegal immigration as a malady exclusive to Texas.
Care to hear my chief complaint with Texas, aside from the oppressive heat? This is a right-to-work state, not a quality-of-life state. That's why illegals thrive here. All interests are crushed under the weight of business pursuits, a short-sighted custom that is burying Texas by the minute. Just wait and see what conditions are like in this state twenty years from now.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
I'm sure people said similar things 20 years ago, Chris.
And it's not like we became right-to-work yesterday. Pretty sure we'd have been buried by now if conditions were in such disarray.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Catte_Nappe Anonymous
Hola, Native Texan Bemused! I too am technically a native Texan, but actually grew up and was educated in many other places before returning to this state. The other places I lived taught history and I learned some things that you apparently missed out on one way or another.
You write "People should know English before they get here." This would have put quite a damper on past immigrants. Many arrived in your native state speaking only French, German or Czech. Other parts of the country similarly received vast numbers of people speaking only Polish, Italian, Greek, Russian or Chinese. Entire rural communities, and huge urban neighborhoods, formed around one or another of those languages. Shops catered to the ethnic preferences in food and goods, signs were written in those languages. A lot like the "little Mexico" enclaves in our region right now.
In due course their children learned English at school. Some, but not all, of their parents learned at least some English in local community centers and night schools. By the third generation a great many knew none of the native language of their grandparents. This is already happening around here, let alone what we can expect over the next 40 or 50 years as today's immigrant children grow up.
However, your feelings and reactions have historic parallels as well. There were pretty strong anti-immigration voices in those earlier waves. I'm glad your ancestry wasn't Irish or Welsh, because it would be very sad if you were acting out the same kind of intolerance that could have faced your grands or great-grands.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
America is more afraid of illegal immigrants, than the immigrants are of America. Americans, comfortable with their inflated incomes, and over-the-top lifestyles are beginning to realize that if the demographics continue to change, effecting the economy as it has, then American lifestyles may change as well.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Clay213 Anonymous
I'm pretty sure that people claimed the economy would collapse without slave labor as well.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bemused Anonymous
Catte_Nappe, my call for people to know English before taking up residence in the U.S. is an expression of an ideal. Are we so steeped in lax expectations that we are now beyond ideals? Should we settle for unsatisfactory realities through conditioned commitment to precedents?
The history of American immigration has no bearing on current circumstances. To say that we should always be a nation of immigrants is about as pervasively applicable as arguing that a lad should remain in an endless stage of childhood. Too many people are coming here in too short a time, a factor that undermines efforts toward assimilation. Moreover, because of huge Spanish-speaking populations who live in the shadows, people can linger here for a lifetime without attempting to assimilate at all. This injects a divisiveness into our culture from which nothing positive can stem.
My views are not the product of intolerance. And the focus of this discussion should be illegal immigration, which by literal interpretation is a crime. If we aren't going to call it such and enforce the laws that govern it, we should open the borders and convert America into a free buffet for the globe. If we do that, we'll be a third-world nation in no time.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
bemused- Yes! America is steeped in lax expectations. It has been for some time. I know this is off the thread topic, but it is a serious subject- to me anyway.
Ideals are a thing of myth and folklore. To actually strive to do the best you can, to rely on honesty and trust, or to simply consider 'the truth', are all things that are for the most part worthless in today's world- they may have always been. (Trust me- the world will turn without them)
Endeavors may start with the most honorable intentions, but along the way, human nature creeps in and gets a cut of the action. Humans lie, steal, and cheat on such a regular basis, that society has just learned to deal with it.
Dishonesty permeates our world- from the stereotypical used-car-salesman, over-blown advertising claims, fake-this, faux-that, sports-doping, "the check's in the mail", and don't forget the tax-loop-holes we all wish we could make use of- dishonesty rules.
You have to stick it to the other guy, before he sticks it to you- because he will.
You can find many different churches in a single neighborhood- touting different religions, and praying to different gods. Could it be they are all right? Can you say which one is right and which are lies? It doesn't matter- they're all thriving businesses that don't have to pay taxes.
If you lie well enough, you can become a politician. And if you can lie real well, you can become President.
America is so used to the lie, that they can be presented with the best, indisputable evidence that their President has lied to them, and they will shrug it off and vote him to another term. We like our liars to be good at what they do.
We were told they're going to build a big wall on the border with our taxes that will stop all this illegal immigration problem. And we believe it.
Sorry- now back to our regularly scheduled program.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Miller Verified
Rick Yost,
Word.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
terryorze Anonymous
The illegal immigration problem looks as if it is finally self-correcting. Since there is not enough cheap labor in this country most things are made somewhere else. To correct the situation the value of the dollar will fall until U. S. citzens cannot afford the things they need from other countries. When they are poor enough they will take jobs that we currently only have illegals doing. Hopefully, enough foreign investors will be found to employ them.
Of course, no government has ever survived eliminating their Social Security System. That should happen in my life time. If history repeats itself the United States will be broken up into a group of smaller countries and a new world power will rise up as soon. Probably the EU and China. So let's get on with our destiny and get the last of the real workers out the country now. They are only prolonging the inevitable by false Social Security illegally.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
Well, if my aging memory serves me correctly, the fall of Rome and the empire has been attributed in part to un-checked immigration.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Andrew Laska Verified
I normally don't comment on things like this but I will here.
Mr Yost said, "Ideals are a thing of myth and folklore. To actually strive to do the best you can, to rely on honesty and trust, or to simply consider 'the truth', are all things that are for the most part worthless in today's world- they may have always been."
This is mostly bunk. Although one can make a case that "ideals" (whatever that means) are not absolute and written in the stars like one might claim about, lets say, laws of physics, one cannot says "ideals" are simply merely folklore.
The world is very different to people who are practicing differing ideals. If what Mr Yost proposes was true, then all things would be equal. But nobody believes that - reasonable and unreasonable people alike.
Mr Yost cannot make the statements he makes without him implying some underlying ideals and thus his own reasoning means we ought not believe him. To say, "If you lie well enough, you can become a politician" and "Dishonesty permeates our world" is to claim that ideals exist in the world and have some substantive effect. If "Dishonesty permeates" then it implies honesty could permeate. If you can lie well enough that means you can possible not lie well enough. That is to say, Mr Yost is proposing certain ideals about how the world is operating. If these are ideals then they must be folklore. If they are folklore they are worthless. If they are worthless then whether lie well enough won't matter as to how good a politician you are but.... round in the circle we go.
Andrew
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bemused Anonymous
I believe Mr. Yost is largely being flippant. His commentary, though studded with truth, is globally satirical. There's nothing wrong with making light of a grave topic.
Ideals are subjective concepts of perfection that few people put into practice. But the rarity of their execution does not negate their value. Without ideals, we abolish all hope. The difficulty arises when we merge opposing ideals in an effort to please conflicting factions. The result is generally unsatisfactory.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
As Chris said, simply depends on your ideal. In his case, if they ain't here within legal means they can giiiiit out. In mine, I'd prefer stability in the region while ridding ourselves of the illegals who are causing real problems (this is a presumption, but gotta trust that the po-lice have good reason to arrest). To each his own.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
lakewooder Anonymous
Most 'immigrants' rapidly remove their kids from school, starting in 9th or 10th grade.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bemused Anonymous
Mr. Doyle, we haven't any stability in the Republic of Texas. If we did, we'd be able to stifle the influx of illegal immigrants. I realize that you are referring namely to economic stability, but an economy riddled with illegal laborers is anything but stable.
lakewooder offers a salient point. The dropout rate among the demographic in question is absurdly high. This lends weight to my assertion that the fastest-growing segment of our population is also the least educated, a most unpromising statistic. Public education in Texas is in the doldrums.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
Them being illegal has little to do with the quality of work they perform as laborers, Chris. Shoddy jobs can be, and are, done everyday by perfectly legal citizens. I fail to see the correlation there. Argument could be made that a better job is often done by illegals so they can maintain work.
Me thinks the lack of education has more to do with their income class than anything. What's the dropout rate versus any other demographic? And I imagine they dropout to get a job and help their family since their parents can't find good enough work...once the wee ones become fluent in English and can make more than their parents, I understand why they'd be pressured to feed the family.
Me thinks the simple difference here is that I'm tolerant of people who come here looking for a better life, considering it's not so easy to simply fill out some papers and pass a test to legally hop the border. Waiting list is ridiculous, etc. That being said, I'm not a proponent of lax borders - but I'm not as quick to kick people out who have been making a life here without causing trouble.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rawlins Gilliland Verified
This is ridiculous, anyone knee-jerl labeling Mexican workers are doing 'shoddy work' by nature as unskilled craftsmen. For God's sakes, they're building million dollas mansions and some of the work...particularly the stone and tile...is gorgoeous and otherwise unattainable. PS: They are building DART through the Trinity Forest eastern perimeters near me and the work ethic I witness is model as it their cement and heavy machinery work.
What planet are you living on if you still have those old jingoistic thoughts about poor Mexican craftmanship? Bitch about illegal immigration...be my guest. But those who have seen what these guys can do, and how fast they do it and inventively and well...become believers instantly.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
SonyaBlade Anonymous
illegal immigration is illegal.
anyone defending illegal immigration can go check Parkland Hospitals balance sheet for last year.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bemused Anonymous
You are correct, SonyaBlade. The toll that illegal immigrants take on hospitals is profound, causing some communities to declare a state of emergency to address the problem. It's frightful to think that Americans have to wait in line behind people who have no right to be here.
Gilliand, I'm not advancing that all illegal immigrants are bereft of applicable skills. I am, however, putting forward that any talents they have are nullified by their status as outlaws. Should a robber be permitted to walk among us because he is a good electrician? Certainly not. In the same sense, illegal immigrants should not be exonerated of their improprieties simply because they might be of some use in the construction industry.
We won't prevent people from coming here through border security alone. We must inconvenience renegade employers with heavy sanctions for hiring illegal laborers. When no work is available, the borders will secure themselves.
One more point: The Texas construction industry is a fiasco. You don't even require a license to operate as a contractor. I've heard several Texas contractors confess that the quality of construction in the northern U.S. is much better than that of Texas.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
Pardon me a moment while I respond to a comment from Andrew: Hello.
Our days are full of intertwined threads of deceit and lies. We are told lies by 'the machine' through marketing, advertising, media, our churches, and our government. There are lies we tell ourselves, and truths we dare not speak. To look into the mirror too closely would make the lives we lead today seem- awkward.
Although most would agree a person should not steal, our culture is full of thievery. From the city official's personal travel on the taxpayer's dollar, to the Enron scandal. The person who receives too much change at the fast food drive thru, and says nothing. The child that secretly pens the answers to the quiz on their palm. The ignored traffic rules and speed limits. Some of America's beloved entertainment-sports-star-role-model-icons are prosecuted for stealing.
I'm not talking about the omnipresent criminal element. I'm speaking of an underlying, cultural acceptance of the shirking of basic, common sense ideals.
We would agree you shouldn't cheat- at anything. Yet there is an entire sub-culture dedicated to cheating on one's relationship. We lower education test scores so our children seem smart to us. The doping of athletes is commonplace in college sports, the pros, and even the most ideal of all sports arenas- the Olympics.
One of the most popular series on television has been the Sopranos- the story of an American family embroiled in the Mafia. These are people who lie, cheat, steal, and murder on a regular basis. Are these really heroic characters? What is it we learn from them?
While fast asleep in the middle of the American dream, we feign concern for far-off places we hear of like Rwanda or Darfur. It’s hard to keep your attention on such distant troubles, when it’s time for American Idol, Football, Dancing with the Stars, or Iraq. While busy with our cookie-cutter,"keep-up-with-the-Jones", flat-screen lifestyles, we tell ourselves, and the rest of the world- we care. It is a lie. And we believe it.
Am I setting myself above all others in this ideal missive? Certainly not. I'm just as average an American as anyone. All I know is crooked contractors will cheat disaster victims, Catholic priests are not all they're cracked up to be, and Martha Stewart is back in the high life. We know there is no separation between church and state, the 'mission' was not accomplished, and we know that just because an email says it's from 'your friend Peaches', it's probably not someone you know.
My point is not that it happens more, or even that we see it more- it's that we accept it so readily.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Bemused Anonymous
I am insulated from the vulgar opiate of prime-time programming, as I decided to part with my television several years ago. Also, I don't care about Rwanda or Darfur. I despise philanthropists; they have no sense of humanity.
Your points are compelling, Mr. Yost. America is a sprawling fashion show of hypocrisy, its sensibilities dulled by mind-numbing distractions. When we patronize the sordid and violent, we needn't ask why the country has descended to extraordinary depths. We are the authors of our own ruin, but I suppose we have nice penmanship at times.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Rick Yost Verified
Enrique Gonzales was his name. He was a laborer at a North Dallas car wash I helped manage back in the 80's.
He was an illegal immigrant from Mexico. He came here because he'd lost the job he'd had as a machinist for sixteen years. Yes, he came here illegally, to make money to send home to his wife and two children in Mexico.
Although I never saw his work as a machinist, I have no doubt he would have been on par with most here in the U.S. You can learn a lot about an individual by the way they do manual labor.
He was a well educated, well spoken (spanish and english)highly-principled fellow and I enjoyed our brief friendship.
If I was in charge, he could stay.
1 year ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
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