Movie review: For the Bible Tells Me So

Michael McCullough, says:

The film sounds incredibly biased and the article was biased, too. For every Jimmy Swaggart on TV, there are thousands of pastors and parishioners ministering in AIDS hospices or in the gay community. No mention was made of that because the facts would get in the way of the story.

Yes, the Bible is unequivocal that homosexuality is a sin, but a majority of "fundamentalists" are willing to reach out and treat homosexuality as no worse than any other sin. That doesn't mean that the sin is tolerated, but merely means that the sinner is welcomed with open arms.

Jesus was accused of associating with "sinners and tax collectors." When asked about it, he said that he came to save the sinners, not the righteous. More Christians practice Christ's teachings than you realize, but we don't have TV shows or radio shows. Besides, as I said before, the truth would interfere with a good, but tired, story of portraying Bible-believing Christians as bucktooth, inbred, hillbillies with an IQ that makes the upper half of the IQ bell cureve possible.

John Meyer, get out and meet the Christians who are ministering to homosexuals, especially those suffering from AIDs. You just might learn something.

Justin Smith, says:

In any discussion, its important for there to be no ambiguity of terms. From dictionary.com: bias - a particular tendency or inclination, esp. one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question; prejudice.

Everyone has a "world" view. That does not necessitate "bias."

Michael McCullough, says:

I view homosexuality as a sin because it causes nothing but unhappiness. I was involved in the music industry when I was younger. Through that, I got to know many gays very well and almost all of them hated the lifestyle. Every single one of them who talked to me intimately about their gayness said that they were either abused as children or had an emotional or physical distance from their fathers. They knew my position as a Christian, but I didn't preach to them about it, but rather accepted them just as I would any other friend. I tried to love them as Christ would love them.

A gay friend died of AIDs-related complication 3-1/2 years ago. I was holding him on his left side while his sister was holding him on his right side when he died. I was there for him but his gay friends were not. So don't preach to me about not being able to love the sinner and hate the sin.

*"Pardon me, but, as John and the film pointed out, if you're willing to go along with the "unequivocal" Biblical statement that it's a sin, than you must also avoid all shellfish or anything that 'hath no fins nor scales in the waters.'"*

The dietary restrictions were specifically abolished in the New Testament. Homosexuality was spoken of as a sin several times in the New Testament. Please, if you're going to use the Bible as one of the main points of your argument, you need to at least know what it says.

*"And the ol' "Hate the sin, love the sinner" is the most hypocritical thing out there. You will never welcome these particular "sinners" "with open arms" until you accept that they aren't sinners."*

Where does that line of thinking come from? When Jesus was accused by the religious authorities of his day of eating with "sinners and tax collectors," Jesus said that he came to heal the sinners, not the righteous. Again, you have no understanding of what the Bible actually says. Read Mark 2:15 and Luke 4:26-37. The message of love the sinner and hate the sin is preached throughout all the New Testament.

Michael McCullough, says:

<p><i>By the way, read your verses -- not once does it say Jesus hated the "sins" of these people, which included such atrocious deeds as having leprosy or palsy. If you can point out to me where it specifically said what these people's sins were other than being sick, please show it to me. Otherwise, it's just you reading something into the text that isn't there.</i></p>

<p>Leprosy and palsy were never considered sins by Jesus. Jesus healed the sick and cast out demons, but he never once stated that an illness like leprosy was a sin in itself. However, many illnesses and tragedies do result from sin -- crack babies, a drunk driver running over a child, sexually transmitted diseases, a mind blown out by LSD (happened to a college friend of mine). Jesus considered that all people were sinners and in need of forgiveness.</p>

<p>As for the example that you asked for, one has to look no further than the story about what Jesus told the woman caught in adultery: "Has no one condemned you? Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more!" --John 8:11 (NKJV). Jesus forgave her of her sins and told her to repent and quit her sinful lifestyle. That message is repeated again and again in the New Testament.</p>

<p><i>There are plenty of straight people out there who have been "either abused as children" or have "an emotional or physical distance from their fathers."</i></p>

<p>Very true. However, people react differently to different situations. My gay friends have mostly been artistic and sensitive and the one whom I held when he died was shunned by his father because he wasn't tough and athletic. Other people may be gay for different reasons. Some may be born with a pre-disposition to homosexuality, just as some are born with a pre-disposition to violence or substance abuse. I can guess what you're thinking, but no one has yet discovered the "gay gene."</p>

<p>Just because some are born with a genetic leaning towards something doesn't mean that it's a good thing. I'm fairly certain that you would think it was wrong for someone to drive drunk even though they were born with a tendency towards substance. Yet, I would assume that you believe that someone born with a disposition to being gay is natural and that there is nothing wrong with beingt promiscuously homosexual. If you do indeed believe both of these things, then you aren't being consistent in your worldview.</p>

<p>Not only have I had many gay friends, but I officed at Oak Lawn and Blackburn for 6 years. I saw what was happening there. I've seen friends who have been beaten up by their lovers (violence is very high in gay relationships). I've had many gay friends tell me that they hate what they do and wish that they were straight. It's a lifestyle that produces nothing but misery to the vast majority of people. Despite the myth perpetrated for years that AIDS could kill anybody and that heterosexuals were just as likely to get it, it's still a fact that most people get AIDS either through homosexual relationships or through dirty needles. And no, I'm definitely not saying that AIDS is God's punishment to gays, merely reinforcing my observations that the homosexual lifestyle is high-risk.</p>

<p><i>I will forever maintain that people who believe that being gay is a sin will always have a wall between them and gay people, no matter what they say to the contrary.</i></p>

<p>Then you maintain wrongly. I am a sinner and everyone in the world is a sinner. I don't have a wall between myself and anyone because that would make me a hypocrite. My brother-in-law is an alcoholic and is divorcing my wife's sister. He's having surgery sometime over the next few days for ulcers caused by his alcoholism (another dangerous lifestyle). My wife and I will be there for him and have offered him a spare bedroom for his recuperation. Despite the misery that he caused his family over the years, God says that we should love him. If God says to do something, then I'm going to do my best to do it.</p> <p>None of my gay friends have ever felt that there was a wall between themselves and me. That's why so many confided in me. I understood their struggles and they understood my struggles.</p>

Michael McCullough, says:

<p><i>Michael, honestly, I don't care to "understand" the Bible as you claim to understand it. I go by my gut feeling of what is right and what is wrong, and for me, viewing homosexuality as a sin will always be wrong.</i></p>

<p>Alex, the problem with that thinking is that everyone's gut feelings are different. Jimmy Swaggart's statement that he would be tempted to kill a man who approached him sexually is his gut feeling, but you and I would both agree that his gut feeling is wrong. The jails are filled with people who had gut feelings that they were entitled to rob or kill somebody. Large parts of the world believe that it is okay for a man to beat his wife.</p>

<p>One has to do a reality check on one's gut feelings to see whether they are right or wrong. The measuring instrument for my gut feelings is the Bible. In fact, the word canon means "measuring stick." I would argue that the Bible is a very good measuring stick.</p>

<p>That does not mean that I see the world in black or white. Sometimes it is right to kill. Sometimes it is right to rob. There are gray areas, but there are also many black and white areas. Jesus said to treat others as you would want them to treat you. He said to love your enemy. He associated with "sinners and tax collectors" (Mark 2:13-17). He spoke with women in a culture where women were not treated as equals. The first two people that he appeared to after his resurrection were women, whose testimony in court was not equal to that of a man's. Jesus was a radical. Jesus upset the religious leaders of his day just as he would probably upset many of today's religious leaders if they really understood him.</p>

<p>You said earlier that you made a mistake on choosing to debate me on the Bible because I have studied it more than you. I challenge you to carefully and slowly read the book of John and consider it in light of the culture at the time. Note Jesus' disciples shock when they came back to a well where they left him and he was talking to a Samaritan woman. Pious Jews of that day would never talk to a woman alone and would never, ever have anything to do with a Samaritan.</p> <p>I'm not asking you to understand the Bible as I do, but it would help you to better understand Christians and possibly help you understand how it is possible to hate the sin but love the sinner. Look at all of the hospitals in the area -- Baylor, Methodist, Presbyterian. They were all founded by Christians. Look at what Mother Teresa did. Google William Wilberforce and John Newton. There's a reason why so many hospitals and ministries were founded by Christians. They were imitating Christ. That's what I strive to do, though I fail every day.</p>