Texas will kill Honduran citizen Thursday for Arlington murder

Pavel Lishin, says:

What about only rape? Or a rape and a brutal beating? Also violent, also horrible, but I don't think these carry an automatic death sentence.

Scott Doyle, says:

Concur with xdwx that it's potentially a slippery slope, however I don't disagree with their decision to push forward in this case. It's not like murder is ridiculously questionable grounds for execution - simply comes down to whether your state/country practices it.

The guy took a life, so TX is returning the favor. Shouldn't make a difference where the murderer's from, imo. Had he not taken a life but committed a series of rapes, or something to that effect, I'd probably feel differently.

In fact, it's pretty disturbing to me that someone who comes in here and kills a national has more opportunity for representation than I do. It's been 7 years, btw. Why are they just now crying about this?

Chris Olson, says:

You're in their country, you're subject to their rules. Know them before you get there. Texas has one rule; You kill us, we will kill you back.

You can't have people going to foreign countries and committing crimes and get away with it just because they're a citizen somewhere else. Otherwise you might have travel packages that include "violence against the locals."

Chris Kidd, says:

Im getting tired of this state not playing by the rules, no wonder wer're the assend of jokes in this country and worldwide. If something were to happen to me in a 1st world country (UK/EU/JP/CN), I would be afforded the right to consult with my consulate when it came to a criminal matter, thats in the Geneva Convention. Hell, Im going to guess in other states outside of the good 'ol boy hellhole region called the south, the party would've been afforded the right to speak to their consulate and provided competent legal representation. Like someone else said, this is a slippery slope that one day will catch an American in its slide.

Jason Rice, says:

I guess I missed what rules we're not playing by. I can't find a citation that his loving mother country wants him back. I can't find a citation of a reasonable appeal for his innocence. I can't find a good reason to kill two people in cold blood over a job selling pants.

We small-minded southerners may just miss the big picture.

Chris Kidd, says:

Jason, Texans, esp. those from a Dallas to Waco line going eastward to LA., do miss the big picture when it comes to the concepts of international justice.

The point isnt that he commited a crime (which he did), the point is that he was not afforded the right to have legal consultations with a representative with his home country. I dont care how henious of a crime your commit, you are still afforded those rights. Apperantly Texans as a whole dont believe that because its one of the worst offenders of both its own peoples and others rights in the nation and world. Hell, theres countries that put less people to death in a year than Texas does in a month, and that is a serious point of shame to me as a resident of this state. It makes me sick our brand of "justice" puts us in line with some of the worse countries (Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, ect..) in the world when it comes to human rights.

So yes, Jason, you southeners do miss the big picture.

Scott Doyle, says:

Not trying to dogpile anybody here, but come on. As momzilla pointed out, you're overlooking that the UNITED STATES Supreme Court (top dawg) ruled on this...not some good ol' boy state judge.

If you're that butt-hurt about it, Doyle also suggest you relocate. To another country.

Jason Rice, says:

Time - out

The Supreme Court weighed in on lethal injection, not this one lonely criminal's plight.

Now the fact that he got decent enough coverage to push that issue all the way up the hill, kinda makes you go "huh?" in light of claims that he didn't get adequate council. Granted that last ditch attempt was after failed appeals, which might be called inadequate, but IANAL and I have other things to read up on.

So cuss us all Chris, but do it with specifics. This grandstanding tires us poor bumpkins out.

Scott Doyle, says:

What good is talking to the consulate going to do anyways?

In all likelihood they'll take a look at the case facts and say, "Well, you're boned." It's not like the have clout to overrule our judges.

Chris Kidd, says:

I didnt expect to change any minds, just speaking my piece....

Jason Rice, says:

Man, I know know I'd wanna talk to another "Dumb American" from inside a Turkish hoosegow.

Jason Rice, says:

Clay and Chris took debate lessons from the same place. Just a suggestion but "Ya buncha d*mn morons" has not historically produced real results. Just my $.02

Jason Rice, says:

Clay, you generally prove my point. Glad I can count on you.

Rick Yost, says:

If you must kill someone, do it in your own country. Don't mess with Texas.

Rick Yost, says:

Reading back my comment, I realize of course it doesn't apply to Americans. We'll go to any country we damn well want and kill anybody we want.

Scott Doyle, says:

Love how death penalty opponents spin it to sound like we put down hundreds of people a day in TX.

We average 16 <a href="http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/annual.htm">a year</a>.

Jason Rice, says:

But we insist on doing it in very large very well armored groups.

Jason Rice, says:

(non sequitur apology)

Rick - we do it in large well armored groups, but yeah, kinda weird.

Rick Yost, says:

Although, there have been quite a few convictions overturned by DNA. It'd be great to know that whomever we decide to eliminate, is truly guilty of the offense their charged with. I may be asking too much.

Scott Doyle, says:

Yost, our advances in crime scene investigation are all the more reason to keep the death penalty around imo. Flip side of exonerations is that, going forward, we're more sure than ever those incarcerated are truly guilty.

Jason Rice, says:

Ok, now THIS is depressing

Looks like the loophole that closed on him (guilty as sin as he may or may not be) is that his country was NOT specifically named in an international judgment.

Rick Yost, says:

Doyle- I agree with you I suppose.
If nothing else the advancements made in evidence tampering and planting procedures help me sleep at night.

Jason Rice, says:

Rick - you scare me. Just that simple.

Scott Miller, says:

Pardon me.

I seem to have stumbled into the Old Testament section by mistake...

Pavel Lishin, says:

jtmbls, rick - DNA sounds wonderful and glorious, but it turns out <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-dna20-2008jul20,0,4108871.story?track=rss">it's flawed as well</a>.

I'm still against the death penalty. As long as there's a 0.0001% chance of being wrongfully put to death, I can imagine myself in that position.

Scott Doyle, says:

I figure I have better chances of dying in a car accident or getting hit by a meteorite than being wrongfully convicted and executed.

Scott Doyle, says:

Meh, justification not to worry about it moreso than justification for its existence. People get too emo about stuff like this, imo.

Scott Doyle, says:

Umm, due process of law is how they get to death row in the first place.

Scott Doyle, says:

Dead to me!

Scott Doyle, says:

I'm also actually reading that the guy <a href="http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5929576.html">doesn't claim to be innocent</a>, there was opportunity for Honduras to deport him but they chose against it (while <a href="http://southchicagoan.blogspot.com/2008/08/texas-makes-mess-of-us-w-execution.html">discouraging</a> his execution), and this is a nothing more than a last resort.

Jason Rice, says:

Good citations Scott. Thanks.

Scott Doyle, says:

That's terrific.

He got United States due process and isn't trying to overturn the verdict, hence I don't see what benefit the Honduras consulate would have brought to the table. Guy immigrated here, committed murder in a state that performs executions, native country won't deport him for life in prison over there...but they don't perform executions so they're morally against him getting the needle where he committed the crime.

As stated, *Concur with xdwx that it's potentially a slippery slope, however I don't disagree with their decision to push forward in this case.* If there was any inkling the guy is innocent and didn't receive adequate representation in route to a guilty verdict, I'd oppose this vehemently. As it stands, put him to rest.

Scott Doyle, says:

Bill (does anyone ever call you Billy?), if you can't tell I'm relatively indifferent about this particular situation. I certainly empathize that there was no communication between Chi and the Honduras consul, however it's been 6 years since the execution was ordered. This is obviously a delay tactic rather than a concern over violated rights (otherwise a bigger stink would have been made long ago).

Scott Doyle, says:

This is the internet, Billy. If I really cared I'd write my Senator or something.

You, of all people, should know I'm here to have a good time! Or, at the very least, to pass the time.

Lori Welch, says:

While the Supreme Court did not weigh in on this one man's case, the justices did have a very similar situation in the Medellin case as it was presented, and decided that the State of Texas had the right to decide the case, which it would have decided if the case had been from Delaware, or Illinois, or Idaho.
As far as wishing for US justice while overseas, don't kid yourselves. As a tourist (not a government employee on a base, for example), you abide by the same laws as everyone else in that country--even the ridiculous ones. Know before you go. What happens when you vandalize property in Singapore? You get caned, even if everyone you've ever known stands up and says what a ding-dong you always were, that the laws really shouldn't apply to you, etc. Doesn't work there either, because we all know--that American kid got caned! The jails of Algeria, Tunisia, Turkey, and Morroco are full of Americans who didn't know better, or who thought they could get out of it because they were Americans. This information is not secret or hidden. It's always been that way.

It seems to me that several of you are having a hard time deciding which issue is at hand: International agreements to extradite criminals, the death penalty itself, or the fairness of the court system regarding socioeconomic class, or race...or gender.

To the person who keeps using this "slippery slope" verbiage, I don't think it's at all that slippery. I doubt anyone here thinks it's ok for Saudi Arabia to execute rape victims as adulterers regardless of the country she is from, while the rapists go free (under Sharia apparently, there have to be at least four male witnesses for it to be considered rape and not adultery). Not a slippery slope, since that thinking won't fly with the Supreme Court.

And no matter how you stack it up on the death penalty line, Honduras and Mexico are not shining examples of humanitarianism or sophistication in action.

Scott Doyle, says:

Well, your slippery slope appears to simply be when foreign citizens aren't given the opportunity to consult their consul (ack!) prior to defending themselves against allegations/charges. On this we agree. You're typically going to be tried under local law regardless, though.

However, I don't feel we should turn the clock back 7 years simply b/c dude's execution is tonight and he wasn't afforded communications with Honduras representatives in 2001. The time to address this has come and gone.

If it really meant that much to him and his attorneys, they would have acted long ago with fury (i.e. 18 months after his trial when it was brought to his attention that supposed treaty rights may have been infringed upon).

Same old song and dance as above.

Scott Doyle, says:

Well, I'm not gonna go stand outside with a sign if the dude doesn't get aced tonight. Since when is commenting on PegNews serious business?

Rick Yost, says:

There is some funny stuff that happens on this site from time to time. But a forum such as this is priceless if utilized correctly. The instant communication of ideas, the sharing of information and knowledge, the fact that residents in our area can talk to each other about issues that effect their daily lives. Yeah, it's fun, but it can be very powerful. This IS serious business. Some folks recognize that, some don't. Just sayin'.

Scott Doyle, says:

I'm sure my views on whether Chi should have been granted an extension on his lethal injection have forever touched the lives of many.

Obviously I see your point, Señor Yost. Exchange of info is gold; guess I prefer to approach it nonchalantly.

However you Peg, it won't bring this cat <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN07410561">back</a>.

Rick Yost, says:

Doyle- wasn't dissing you dude. Just doing my thang. Hell, you are our comic-relief on Pegasus News.

Jason Rice, says:

I, however, insist on dissing Doyle. It's the only reason I pay my phone bill.

Scott Doyle, says:

Nevermind <a href="http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2008/aug/01/dallas-should-rename-ross-avenue-cesar-chavez/#c31840">this comment</a>, looks like you double-dipped Yosty.

Diss all you want, imo. Just make sure I'm not that silent guy at work you never talk to or invite to lunch.

<img src="http://www.coronene.com/images/internet-serious-business.jpg">

Rick Yost, says:

Doyle- That's exactly what I did... I sometimes will have a cocktail.

Scott Doyle, says:

Averaging 16 executions a year with only 6 to date in '08...doesn't seem extreme. But I'm from the south and chriss is from the north - clearly, opinions will differ.

Jason Rice, says:

Hey. We're terrible people. Accept it.

Moreover, tell everyone you know we're a bad place to live. Especially if they may be prone to gunning down multiple unarmed people in cold blood.

Rick Yost, says:

Again it all hinges on true guilt, but you could call this revenge by proxy. If someone murdered a member of my family, you can bet I'd be doing all I could to murder them back! I'd just have to settle for letting the criminal justice system do it for me.
The last thing I want is to pay to house and feed the guy who murdered my family member.
Am I a monster?

AnnMarie Wilson, says:

Chriss - I agree! How is it better if the state murders someone?

I fully admit when I was younger, I didn't want to pay to 'house' a criminal - kill 'em!

As I said I was a lot younger.

My family also has been subjected to a murder; female family member killed by their spouse. We didn't want him put to death. We want him to live a good long life behind bars. Did I mention long? Very, very long.

By murdering someone we place ourselves in the the same league as those countries we rail against. And the death penalty has proved time and again, it's not a deterrent.

How does this make us better? Does it bring the dead back? What do we accomplish?

Put them in jail, take away all the extras (I don't have cable tv either), provide a library and education avenues - they just might become enlightened and that would make the crime they committed even more heinous in their minds. Oh and make them work. Hmmm no cigarettes either.

Scott Doyle, says:

Umm, you realize that what actually kills you in the lethal injection process would hurt like hell if the initial shot wasn't anesthetic, right? The third and final stops your heart. I'm pretty sure being electrocuted, hanged or beheaded wouldn't be so bad either if they pumped you full of happy drugs beforehand.

If we killed someone the day they're sentenced to death, I may feel differently. It typically <a href="http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/drowfacts.htm">takes a decade</a> or so for someone on death row to get aced, though. 10 years of prison with an execution cherry on top isn't a walk in the park.

Jason Rice, says:

That delay is usually cited as contravention to any deterrent effect the penalty has.

The funny omission of all our rants above is the only argument that would ever move me from the "kill 'em and chill 'em" camp: The enormous cost of appeals for capital punishment cases.

I'd flip-flop immediately if I could be assured a psycho freak could be permanently incarcerated with no future chance of parole -- I mean NO chance. The appeals would pay for his keep (minus cable - yep, jtmbls)

Every week has another released criminal proving recidivism stats. If you can guarantee I'm safe from that looney that strangled a little girl and her whole family and got away with it for a decade+, then you have my "keep him breathing" vote. Otherwise, he needs to be fertilizing a rose garden.

AnnMarie Wilson, says:

No chance of parole - if proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. DNA testing mandatory through a certified, reputable third-party lab.

No, I don't trust against evidence tampering either.

But agree 100% on no chance of parole instead of the death penalty.

Can you even IMAGINE what that would be like. Never getting out. No access to the world except a small amount of regular TV and newspapers/books. Year, after year, after year.

That in my mind, would be a huge deterrent. Probably a lot of suicide watches too.

Jason Rice, says:

Actually, regular TV alone is cruel punishment. I haven't watched much TV since my kids were born but I got stuck watching a while this weekend and D*MN it's turned to 24/7 Entertainment Tonight! Ick! That may actually be more inhumane than the injection.