xdavidwattsx, says:

What, you don't have a recycle bin?

momzilla, says:

If it's a paper only bin, and idiots put garbage in it or leave the door open so that the contents get soaked when it rains, often they have no choice but to take it to the landfill.

Worth looking into, though.

xdavidwattsx, says:

No kidding. Get on that story and win you a pulitzer.

One huge kudos to the city of Dallas for their excellent recycling program. I think we end up recycling as much if not more than we throw away.

DC, says:

I think kudos is a bit strong. Maybe slow clap. The inconsistent multifamily building recycling is pretty weak and the intervals are pretty long considering the twice a week trash pick up.

xdavidwattsx, says:

It's definitely not perfect, but I haven't seen another municipality in the area offer even close to the level of ease and service that Dallas has rolled out.

DC, says:

I don't know that sucking less than Arlington is really that great.

momzilla, says:

Fort Worth's is pretty darned good. I don't know how they handle apartments over here, though. The only complex that I'm ever in is a retirement community where my MIL lives and they take newspapers and cardboard only. That may be to keep it simple for the old folks, though. Not sure.

I know that when our PTA had a private bin for newspaper collection as a fundraiser, we had a terrible problem with people putting their garbage in there and ruining what we'd collected.

That problem was caused by the once a week pickup of garbage, and the limit to one bin of trash per household per week. When folks had a party that generated a lot of trash, or had to clean out the fridge and didn't want to stink up the garage, they'd drive around to find a bin to put it in.

xdavidwattsx, says:

Fair point, DC. Fair point.

Momzilla, maybe they could make big slots in the top of the bins so that only paper and folded up boxes and small containers could get put in rather than garbage bags.

xdavidwattsx, says:

Somebody give Alex a raise!

KenC, says:

Where does Omni get this information from?? While the popular myth is that this industry is responsible for the neutering of forests, the reality is the Yellow Pages industry doesn’t knock down any trees for its paper!!! Let me repeat that – they don’t need to cut any trees for their paper supply. Currently, on average, most publishers are using about 40% recycled material (from the newspapers and magazines you are recycling curbside), and the other 60% comes from wood chips and waste products of the lumber industry. If you take a round tree and make square or rectangular lumber from it, you get plenty of chips and other waste. Those by-products make up the other 60% of the raw material needed. Note that these waste products created in lumber milling would normally end up in landfills. Not only that, as wood chips decompose, they emit methane, a greenhouse gas closely associated with global warming. Paper manufacturing thus puts these chips to good use. Many paper providers will also use 5% or less of recycled directories in their paper creation.

And to "James Scott" who noted my blog posting which has called for an industry boycott of Omni, please note I am receiving numerous comments from industry people who are canceling upcoming reservations and any industry events that were planned at a Omni hotel. Thanks for helping us get the word out further.

slash069, says:

Actually, yellow page lookups DOMINATE local lookups hands down (about 65%) compared to the 25% that Google and Internet YP gets. If any of you were actually knowledgeable about what you're talking about, you'd know that. Try doing some research on the topic before commenting on it. As a person who is very internet savvy (internet marketing & development), I still use the yellow pages on a regular basis because only 1 out of 10 businesses today even has a website, and most of them doing a POOR job of marketing it. how pathetic is that? Without a doubt, the most thorough and complete listings of local businesses is still the printed book.

Want an even bigger waste of paper? distribution of the USA Today every day to every room in a hotel that noone reads. while yellow page usage is showing almost ZERO decline, it is a completely known fact that newspaper readership has taken a total nose-dive since the internet caught on. hence, why news sites like this one can even exist.... Why dont' they stop putting newspapers in the rooms and really save some trees? I can't remember the last time I've read a print newspaper....

jtmbls, says:

Never a good idea to poke the sleeping giant with his own stick! :-)

As a person who once relied on the yellow pages regularly, I can't honestly remember the last time I opened one. In fact, I consider it the largest and most intrusive form of junk mail left at my door. I believe antiquated is the word I was looking for.

momzilla, says:

I use my yellow pages with fair frequency. It's especially useful when my internet or electricity is out after a thunderstorm, which is fairly frequently because I live in an older neighborhood with large trees and overhead utility lines.

I've also had occasion more than once to be reminded why it's a good idea to keep my rolodex updated, even though I have the information on my cell phone or, back in the day, a PDA.

slash069, says:

Mike

Your response warrants a conversation because unlike the other forum trolls who make posts without any kind of educated content, yours is one who has some insight. As a point of background, I am an independing advertising consultant who focuses most of my attention on Internet advertising. But, I also consult on all forms. Having knowledge of all media types is important in understanding how to help my clients.

The Wall Street Journal, The Kelsey Group, and other marketing companies have all well documented Yellow Page usage.

Don't confuse what I'm discussing. What i'm talking about here is LOCAL SEARCH, not national or statewide search where the internet is a much better option. People dont go to the newspaper to find the number for the dentists in the area. They dont sit in front of the TV or the radio for 3 hours to wait for a plumber's ad to appear when their pipes are leaking. Do some turn to the internet? sure, but not even close to the number that turn to print. why? there arent any resources on the internet as comprehensive and easy to access as the print book. period.

Now, the techies that read your website like Jason rice here make themselves feel more intelligent by saying "they dont use the dinosaur yellow pages" but he's one person in a population of alot of people. for every jason rice, there's 3 people that use print. but those people dont post on your website. Also, a yellow page directory has distribution to THOUSANDS of households. having it thrown out by even 5% of them does nothing to usage. I'd be willing to bet 95% of the dallas area doesnt look at this website. And google admits its usage for searches is only about 50%, and around 80% including its entire network. Not to mention, even google will tell you in their own ad words training tutorials that only 5% of all website views are search results...

Your pie chart , while interesting information, isn't discussing usage, its documenting market share in amounts of each type of advertising done. I'm talking about CONSUMER usage to look up local businesses. When I talk to a local business owner who shows me documented call counts out of his yellow pages and tells me he'll never give it up, the statistics make alot of sense. To generate the same kind of call volume off Google would cost easily 4 times the same amount given click through and conversion rates.

Also, don't confuse revenue share with usage share. YP is one of the least expensive forms of advertising there is. Other than Internet YP, find me another media that offers 24 hour year round visibility for less(with strong usage numbers). Don't even say google because I know better. And if you find someone spending $400/day in YP, I'll find you someone who seriously needs an advertising consultant. Want to give them my phone number? :) In my travels the avg business is spending MUCH less than that in YP. For example, a heating/ac company I deal with receives on avg 180 phone calls/month out of a yellow page ad that costs him under $600/mo. $600/mo on google won't generate anywhere near those results.

Dont get me wrong, the Internet is a strong advertising medium. Heck, its my mainstay. But it irritates the heck out of me to see people make posts when they are completely uneducated. Why? because some business owner out there will read it and actually believe something that isn't true. Go tell a plumber, restaurant, or lawyer yellow pages doesnt work, and they'll laugh you right out of their business. Talk to a company who manufactures furniture stripping equipment, and the Internet is a better option...

xdavidwattsx, says:

Yellow Pages is slowly slipping away. Sure, people still use it(the older generation who is comfortable with it, but most of us under 35 or 40 DO NOT turn to the YP for search. We use the internet or phones.

You can call us uneducated all you want, but the stone cold reality is that this "uneducated" generation of forum trolls aren't using YP for any more than recycle bin filler. As generations turnover you'll see YP fade into complete obscurity.

I'd like to then question the "uneducated" few who are still trying to pimp a dead medium.

slash069, says:

so, because you don't use the YP. noone else does.... I've never once visited this website for anything other than replying to this thread. guess that means that noone else comes here?

Also, I'm not "pimping" a dead medium. I "pimp" all mediums. Tell a business owner who gets 180 calls/mo from the book that its a dead medium. BTW, this "dead medium" generated over $18,000 in business in 2 months of advertising. I bet that advertiser doesn't want that business...

Considering you have NO documented facts in your post, you are still one of the uneducated. BTW, im 38 and I still use YP for many things, so there goes your stone cold reality. Oh, and I also use the internet. Hmmmm....

And as generations turn over (that's in what every 20 years?), you'll see lots of things change. In 20 years, I will probably be singing a different tune. If I'm not I guess I'm not staying in touch with market changes. But that's 20 years from now and not today. As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to bet in 20 years, the internet as we know it will be totally different.

So what's your point? Please if you have nothing useful to contribute to the conversation other than, "I dont use them so noone else does" save your time. I won't respond to your failed logic.

xdavidwattsx, says:

Damn, you're pretty much a condescending jerk for someone in the industry trying to make a point.

I think the point is pretty obvious. YP are dying. You can be in denial all you want, but you can't tell me the YP is what they were 10 years ago and will be what they are now in 10 years. YP are going to the way of the cassette and VHS.

jtmbls, says:

Having two feet firmly planted on a sinking ship would make me bitchy too.

slash069, says:

david, im not in YP industry. im independent consultant for ALL medias (mostly focusing on internet as I said before). and what background do you have to qualify your statements other than you dont use yp? if you don't use YP, that's cool, it really doesnt matter. Millions of other people do and businesses are making millions of dollars advertising in them, and that's the only point I'm making. I will agree with you on one point though. YP are not what they were 10 years ago, and they arent what they'll be 10 years from now. That is why I continue to watch all the market research available to me so I can best point my customers in the right direction. But to say it is dying is inaccurate. They won't be going away any time soon.

To add another piece of perspective. Yes, YP companies(as do I) acknowledge that Internet is a growing media. That is why you see all of them heavily moving to advance their online YP platforms. In the near future(next few years) these sites will probably become alot more useful to the end user than they are currently.

alex, i did point out the sources. wall street journal and kelsey group were two of them. also my documentation is from conversations with actual business owners who get actual results both in print and online(which is the best possible source of accurate feedback). For obvious reasons i cant disclose their names as then i would be violating their privacy.

jtmbls, says:

Jason - That's what 411 is for...Oh, and congratulations...I think...

slash069, says:

fishing for credible evidence to support your arguments?!? Sorry, having seen any yet.

considering I've been misquoted about 5 times in this thread by people attempting to form a logical argument, I'll save everyone the carpal tunnel typing responses to one another and just leave you all to believe what you want.

I'll continue advising my clients on the best ways to advertise their businesses in newspaper, tv, radio, internet, and yes in the YP too. Hopefully, they'll make thousands of dollars in the process and hopefully continue to hire me.

As staunch internet users, im sure you'll continue to use the internet to look things up with is GREAT because it supports my internet recommendations. and others who continue to use the print directory will continue to help support my print recommendations. That being said, its all good, and the world is a bright, sunny place for all. Have a great day!!

Now to look up an employment agency in the YP because I must be in the wrong career....

xdavidwattsx, says:

I bet John McCain uses the Yellow Pages!

jtmbls, says:

And there went slash's last client.

KenC, says:

Mike: You seemed like a pretty smart dude. Maybe you just don't get out very often.

The Omni didn't want to get rid of the books in the room because of some overwhelming green desire -- it's about money. They charge $9.95 for daily Internet access and if you hadn't noticed, they and many other hotels have created their own little local directory which they sell ads in. If you remove the primary competitor to their directory, it makes selling ads a lot easier. And now that we've just pulled one convention from them, you might be a little surprised how the conversation has changed.

xdavidwattsx: Brilliant comment about McCain using the printed book. Shows a real depth of knowledge and insight. But given that some 20% of HH don't have Internet access I would have figured you'd have gone the other way with your endorsement. Since both candidates want everyones vote, I'm sure they will both tell you they use the books.

jtmbls, says:

heeeeeeheeeeee...Yeah Mike, you should get out more. Maybe pay a little more attention to the world around you.

slash069, says:

wow, this conversation is still going...?

Ken, dont bother talking to techies about the value of a print form of advertising. it'll get you nowhere. It's obvious none of them ever use the book.

Just sleep well at night knowing that everyone in this world beats to a different drum and that the value of print advertising is still strong based on real world results (regardless of what these few marketing gurus might think). BTW, YP advertising is still ALOT more effective than the banner advertising done on websites like this that 99.9% of users completely ignore. So, even if 50% of the homes throw out the YP, there's still alot more penetration because I'd be willing to bet this site would be lucky if 5% of the dallas population actually came here.

And when did i lose my last client? You mean the dozen or so I've worked with since my last post have already cancelled all their advertising we did? GAH!!!! Oh, and 2/3 of them happily do print YP. But thanks for your concern.

slash069, says:

as i said in a post before....

20 years from now, is 20 years from now. one doesnt sell advertising based on what is happening 20 years in the future. today's trends, and only today's trends matter.

in 20 years when print has become much less relevant, i probably won't be selling as much print. just as 15 years ago, the internet wasnt as relevant, so I wasn't selling banner ads.

i think we are all in agreement on one thing. times are changing, and to that i dont argue. but to say print is totally irrelevant TODAY is simply ignorant. that is my whole point.

Again, im talking about TODAY, not 20 years from now when the world will be a totally different place than it is now.

jtmbls, says:

Commentor Russell Nelson also left a little gem along the same vein in response to the story Mike linked to here

http://www.pegasusnews.com/blogs/pega... from the Recovering Journalist website.

Something about there being two types of people in the world - Those who welcome the future and those who try to fend it off.

slash069, says:

scott, very.....insightful.

seems to be exactly what i was saying. that still doesnt change the fact that TODAY is TODAY, and people spending money TODAY must spend money based on TODAY's market conditions. What part of that concept do you not get?

Does that mean they don't start putting money in to tomorrow's trends? NO. but if the market TODAY says that something is working, then you spend on money on that TODAY. in 20 years when something else is working better, then you spend money on that.

Just like all of you, i stopped buying vhs tapes, LP's and audio cassettes when those became outdated. When YP's become obsolete, I'll stop recommending them to my customers. But that day is far from here...

and now, i have nothing else to add to this topic that i havent already said. good luck with your site!

jtmbls, says:

Hey wait! Don't leave! There are plenty of other exciting threads.

Like this:

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2008/...

Or this:

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2008/...

Or this:

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2008/...

I think you will find that some of us have assumed the role of gaurd dog here at Peg because it's a great concept and well, we are damned excited about it and rather protective of Mr. Orren, our patriarch. But unlike most vicious gaurd dogs, once you cry uncle, we will happily lick your face. And sometimes even if you don't, we will still lick your face. Doyle, go ahead, lick his face. So, hang out for awhile, have a look around. We will grow on you. Like mold.

ch0, says:

Yes Scott, lick his face...

jtmbls, says:

Come on Doyle! Lick his face...just once!!

jtmbls, says:

I'm psychic. LICK!!!