Scott Doyle Verified

I'm hoping this applies when only one of the parents is deported? Surely they don't deport both parents and keep the kid here?!

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Pavel Lishin Verified

I think that in most cases, if you're born on U.S. soil, you are automatically granted citizenship; so even if the child's parents are illegals, they could be citizens themselves.

Deporting the children might be even more difficult if the child's parents' country doesn't grant the kid citizenship. Can't really deport someone to a country they're not a citizen of.

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

This is the crux of the issue that always bewilders me. Would you consider having a kid in a situation where you could legally be separated from them for life? That just makes my head swoon. But frankly we can't get wrapped around the spokes on that. It's a fraud.

As I understand (and we know I might as well be an expert at fly fishing when it comes to international law), Mexico doesn't automatically grant citizenship to progeny. So you have to apply for it for your kid. BUT a ten year old law lets them apply for dual citizenship (don't get me started on the sovereignty scam this is) so all the breat-beating about tearing apart families is just smokescreen. They can pay $12 and head south with mum and dad.

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Pavel Lishin Verified

Jason: you might have that kid if you realize that the loving parents can't afford to feed the child in their home country. Despite what sappy songs and movies tell you, love does not conquer starving to death.

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Meh, figure it's in the best interest of the kid to stay with its parents unless circumstances dictate otherwise.

Simply because their parents aren't legal citizens doesn't mean they're unfit. A bit presumptuous to deem peeps incapable of caring for their own child solely because they're border-jumpers (after all, they were crafty enough to get in and stay long enough to reproduce!).

United States education/healthcare vs Mexico is a no-brainer, but is that worth growing up without your biological family? Not to mention, rids my fellow tax payers and I the financial burden of raising 'em in our foster system.

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Pavel? .... you alright? That was neither witty nor complete. HELP They've abducted Pavel!!

My issue is simple. All my life I see these scenarios play out.

Joe Smith 2.5 kids - loses job, can't live the high life and keep kids in 5-star schools, moves to Tahoka and sells bait. Public Opinion "Them's the breaks"

Joe Jones 2.5 kids (AKA Ed the Embezzler)- discovered felony fugitive from Wisconsin. Law slams him in jail despite wife's plea that she didn't know. Public Opinion "Jerk! Had it comin'"

Joe Diaz 2.5 kids - illegally in foreign country, possibly under stolen identity, courts tied up for years in blizzards of special interest groups' lawyers. Public Opinion "What about the children?"

Am I missing something simple here? I'm probably not a very smart man so I'm askin'. Sure a lot of deportees just vanish (I presume) but it's not like they didn't know it was shady going in. Nobody else put them at risk, right?

I have to commend Garland ISD for being so frank and forward thinking. Man! At least it forces the parents to have a recovery plan. That's probably the most humane thing I've ever seen from a school system. (Ok, some of the "Don't drop out" stuff is amazing, too - but you know what I mean)

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

I'm not really following. Doyle's just wondering if we try to keep the kid with the parents or break up families b/c a kid's illegal parents birthed him/her here.

• Losing job = still with your family.
• Daddy in jail = still a mommy (most times) in the USofA.
• INS caught Papá Urbina trying to buy a car (at Frank Parra Dodge) = familia no más.

I'm also wondering if Miko will find me an underground railroad when those seedy INS cats plant a fake ID and try shipping me back off to Ireland...

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Pavel Lishin Verified

My point is simple - it's better to live with a foster family in the U.S. of A. then spend your pre-teen, tween and teenage years picking potatoes in a field while a fat guy whips you with a chain.

My vote? If the law doesn't state clearly whether the child should stay or go, give the child the option.

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Doyle - relax. If you can type and answer a call center phone, we can get ya back in on a H-1B.

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Dallas Spohn Verified

what country still whips people with chains? I know Mexico doesn't. My wife and I had to live there for 9 months until she could get her visa sorted out and we are both from first world countries. So I know the pain of getting squared away with the country. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. But with that said, you have to live by the law or risk losing everything important to you.

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Pavel, as stated, there's no doubt that growing up in the U.S. is typically better than Mexico, but that's not to say you're a lost cause if you get shipped back with your parents (or that it's best to abandon your family).

Believe it or not, there are Mexicans who lead successful lives in Mexico...and even ones who get their education down there, then come here legally!

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Mexico is the 15th largest economy in the world. That means that if suddenly they weren't butted up against the US but some other nation, by roll of the dice almost any other neighbor they ended up with would be so poor by contrast that they'd have immigration problems identical to ours.

So if you get to choose your neighbors and you're not the richest guy on the block, live NEXT to the righest guy on the block. His yard looks great with no encroaching crabgrass and they break into his car before yours.

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Pavel Lishin Verified

Didn't mean to imply that all children in Mexico grow up knee-deep in filth, subsisting on whatever scraps their drug-lord masters happen to drop on their way to important business meetings. Generalizations, etc.

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

I know your kind. You're the kind that likes to categorize people, aren't you?

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Jason, I'm not reading through all that at work (especially because the guy has a hard-on for 'he said, she said' type writing), but who's to say violent crimes wouldn't have skyrocketed had abortions continued to be outlawed? If it's addressed in that mess of text, please point me to it.

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Scott, oops seems we jumped threads --

But the gist of that is - Zillion dollar best-seller book "Freakonomics" that examined statistical anomalies and connects seemingly unconnected things asserts a huge crime drop 18 years after Roe vs. Wade - as the unwanted births would have"come online" for crime. Big stink (both ends of spectrum) . Author redacts part of finding (left out a few correlatable stats) and other authors shore up a general debunking of that specific finding.

Awesome book BTW.

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Right, I gathered all that.

Do they address what would have happened had Roe v. Wade been overturned or never ruled in favor of Roe? I.e. sure there was an increase in violent crime among the age demographic born just after the decision, but would we have expected it to be 10-fold with all those illegitimate chilluns being squeezed out?

I don't care about their glorified grade school rivalries.

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Nah - it's just shuffling numbers. No real politics or sociology. It was just "hey, look at these statistics --- look, they line up with these way over here." Then some of the more interesting ones they do a little riff on like "Most drug dealers live with their mothers... probably 'cause of this and that" Brain candy. (But I liked it)

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Pavel Lishin Verified

The problem with these kinds of studies is that it's hard to draw conclusions that you could positively identify as true or false (unless someone has invented psychohistory and didn't bother to tell anyone.)

Even more fun comes when laymen try to analyze these sorts of findings!

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

I knew the Mule (not Pavel) would show up soon.

You can't take the book too seriously. It's really a couple of economist/marketing guys saying "dude! look! cool? definitely."

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Well hell, if they're going to bicker about stats I figured they'd at least address the flip side of the coin. Excuuuuuuse me!

Not analyzing crap, I have a real job to tend to over here. Endless pages of discrediting what was likely an economist's fun little side project is for the birds. Judging by the state of affairs, THEY ALL must have MANY side projects working. =p

1 year, 2 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )