Census Bureau report determines that most affluent city in the U.S. is Plano

snowboard9 Anonymous

Congrats to Plano. However, a flaw with the 250,000 - OR MORE beauty contest is that Plano happens to be just a hair past 250,000.

It enjoys the early and disproportionate influx on high incomes earners to make it one of the nations fastest growth cities. Yet, it is not quite large enough to take on the burdens of a mature city. At 4x larger than Plano, I'll take San Jose, Ca any day over Plano. But, this is a nice pageant award.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

TLS Anonymous

This can't be true. Have they seen "The Real Housewives of Orange County"?

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

di_atribe Anonymous

Using the CNN cost of living comparison calculator, I get 85000$ in San Jose (about the median cited) being worth only about 52,300$ in Plano. To have the same "affluence level" as Plano, the San Jose median would have to be about 138,000$.

....as pointed out by my "affluent" friend who lives in Plano who happens to be really good at math.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Lisa Lawrence Merritt Verified

"Jeez, then how is that Plano-ites come off as a bunch of middle-class tightwads?"

Because Plano has no Soul, is void and lacks imagination.

I would just as soon slit my own throat than reside there.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

chasd00 Anonymous

it's not a good city, not a bad city, just a plano city. heheh

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Alex Bentley Staff

The irony, Lisa, is that the person who wrote that question is actually a Plano resident herself.

I'm a resident myself, and I'm pretty sure I have a soul, am not void and have a decent imagination. Pretty harsh generalization there, Lisa.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

I'm soulless and devoid of imagination.

I'm cool with it.

I have an extra straight razor around for hobby stuff if you need it.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

I moved to Plano the late nineties because it was convenient to my place of employement, and so that my children could attend "good schools". I don't live there anymore simply because it's not convenient, but I must say, I miss some things about living there - like: low crime, city-sponsored recycling, a clean sam's club (as opposed to the really nasty one on samuel ave. that is closest to me now)... not to mention the house, the likes of which I will never be able to afford in Lakewood. It seems that the definition of "affluence" has to do with "bang-for-your-buck" - that doesn't seem so bad to me :-)

It is also a fact that Plano ranks VERY very high in churches per capita so maybe that accounts for the lack of soul ;-)

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Lisa Lawrence Merritt Verified

Jason:

It's ok, I don't need to use your razor because I will never live in Plano.

Btw, a "clean Sam's Club?"

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Just trying to help.

Yep - clean Walmart too. Faustus got wisdom and fame, we got clean discount stores.

It's all about the upfront negotiations with that crew.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Collin Gouldin Verified

not all of them are clean ... (cough) east plano (/cough)

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

We blame that on Murphy. They can't defend themselves so we kick them when they look away.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Joel Woiton Verified

Median income of only $84,492! Who's bringing the average down?

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Collin Gouldin Verified

(east plano)

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Apparently not growing up in Dallas or Ft. Worth proper = no soul. So be it, imo.

Not that I'm defending peeps chasing the Jones's...but jfc, what the hell is there in Dallas that's affordable without worrying about seedy neighbors?

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Lake Highlands is as affordable if not more than many parts of Plano. Seedy? That's pretty relative since I'm not sure any part of DFW is immune to break-ins, burglaries and rapes.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Brett Hoerner Staff

What gives Lake Highlands any more soul than Plano? They're both a bunch of houses smashed together to me. Until you're in or right around downtown it all feels like suburbia.

And I don't think Scott said anything about immunity, but I think if you compared stats between Lake Highlands and equivalently priced areas of Plano you might be surprised. /shrug

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Brad LaRock Verified

Go easy on Murphy. We've got our own angles there. Plano, Richardson, Wylie, Sachse, Garland and Parker have us surrounded. We don't need anymore help. I am convinced that there are few neighborhoods with "soul". Brett nailed it. Anything north of Bush is a sea of shingles. Top two things to do in the metroplex...shop and eat. Top two things people don't do in the metroplex...know their neighbors and get involved in the town they live in. Take a chance, walk next door and ask your neighbor what you can do for them. Now that takes some soul.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tevi lawson Verified

<>

I could not agree more with you, Brad! Let's hope that it changes soon with the growing diversity of folks moving in from more "sociable" parts of the country.Provided that us dallasites allow our shells to be broken so that we can step out of our comfort zone...and give this great city more "soul", more "vibrant life".

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Joel Woiton Verified

What's so bad about East Plano? If Plano has any "soul" it resides in the older East Plano. Apparently, soul takes time to mature. Homes need to be re-sold several times and commercial space need to be on their 3rd or 4th different business venture to have any soul. The brand new west side Plano is completely void of soul.

And about Murphy, it should be a nice town when they finish building it. Check back in ten years

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Frankly, I'm just jealous of some of the great lots in Murphy near where a former boss of mine lives. I just hope you guys can keep some of that land Un-BestBuy/Home Depot-ed. Fight the good fight, Brad!

East Plano has some character and I really enjoy the Downtown. So much so, that we produce theater down there. You have a 50% chance of running into me on a weekend night, actually. Nice shops. Nice little Farmers' Market. Nice coupla pubs.

Oh, I mean "NO, it's awful down there... terrible... you'd hate it. Don't go there."

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Downtown is considered east Plano?

Anyways, speaking of being neighborly, it kills me on the inside that Highland Park has devolved so much. My grandparents have one of the last original homes from original development in their area, and I remember going to the annual block party when I was a kid. Pretty sure they stopped the block party long ago and their new neighbors (who tore down other original houses to build McMansions) are disgusted that a one-story house still exists on their street.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

lakewooder Anonymous

Plano had a little soul back when there was one high school and they beat HP at Texas Stadium. Then the white flight continued and it became a monster of slab houses and composition roofs on the prairie with teens in 1,500 member high school classes.

They all ran away from poor people so why is it a surprise the poverty rate is so low? It's also no suprise that they send their poor to Parkland Hospital but refuse to pick up the tab. Why would they? The corporation will probably transfer them soon and it's on to Cary, Rancho Cucamonga, Peachtree City or Naperville. Very few people up there have generations of family invested as is the case in my area - that's how you develop 'soul'.

Meanwhile the cancer of urban sprawl and white flight will continue as "West" Plano's 29,000 apartment units start to be overcrowded with low-income people, causing the current (or temporary) residents to move farther north or back to the gentrifying city.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

I think I need to introduce lakewooder to some Plano friends of mine.

The Samaritan Inn

Crossroads Family Services

CITY House

The Giving Movement

It's nice to simplify and generalize and Plano has it's faults, but it also has poverty and need and people doing a lot to combat it. If there is grain, there is chaff. You didn't get left holding the bag. Plano was poor with phenomenally low grades when your "white flight" began and that didn't just vanish in a puff of wishful thinking. People are working every minute of every day on it.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

"What gives Lake Highlands any more soul than Plano?"

Wasn't addressing soul per se, just the original question of affordable areas in Dallas similar to Plano.

But if you want to get into it, Lake Highlands is minutes from White Rock Lake, arguably the greatest recreational spot in the entire city. It's minutes to Greenville, Lakewood and Uptown or wherever you want to eat at some great unique restaurants. We're not trapped in chain restaurant hell, unlike Plano.

Or you can just hang out in Plano and pretend nothing in Dallas is affordable and it's all crime ridden. Whatevs.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Plan is to buy something affordable near Plano's downtown rail stations so I can have the best of both worlds!

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Alex Bentley Staff

As xdavidwattsx should well know, there are more than a few non-chain restaurant gems in Plano:

http://www.pegasusnews.com/places/mr-...

http://www.pegasusnews.com/places/sim...

http://www.pegasusnews.com/places/poo...

http://www.pegasusnews.com/places/zan...

http://www.pegasusnews.com/places/che...

I could go on, but you get the point. By the way, all of those? East Plano.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

x*x - Ya gotta leave the security of the frontage roads up in dangerous Plano. Bud, I have a French restaurant up here I'll put up against anything you wanna bring on ;o) Oooh and Aparicio's... and Country Burger.... Oh may oh my Picasso's for family Italian.

Man I oughta drag all you guys around for a Saturday. It's just like anything new to you - it looks scary from the outside.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Poor Richards!! Oh man Alex - yeah you put me to absolute shame with that. Zander's!

yeah -- Alex is better at this.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Brett Hoerner Staff

Or you can just hang out in Plano and pretend nothing in Dallas is affordable and it's all crime ridden. Whatevs.

Well someone's feeling all shmancy pants about living in Dallas, aren't they? I'm with Alex, assuming that everything North of 635 is a chain is just silly. But whatever makes you feel cool and hip, bromeister!

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Collin Gouldin Verified

i prefer JC's to Country Burger...
and Joel, you asked what was bringing down the median household income, and i replied east Plano. Most things East of 75, while nice and homey as they may be, are not as high dollar as the houses, people, and places in central and west Plano.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Ok, Collin - you have out-cooled me yet again.

JC's? Point me there.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Brett Hoerner Staff

Come on Jason, it's right by Henry's Homemade Ice Cream ... a great non-chain ice cream place in Plano. (NO WAY!)

http://www.pegasusnews.com/places/jcs...

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Collin Gouldin Verified

yup, you can get a great burger and milkshake in the same place! (the bring over Henry's ice cream for them).

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Donna Chen Verified

Wait til Frisco reaches this population...

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Collin Gouldin Verified

ive never seen houses in frisco that come close to the size or cost of the houses in west plano (willow bend)... but maybe I'm just missing them.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Brett - yes way! I checked Peg and could not for the life of me remember anything but Henry's and Jumptown. I ran by the on the way home because despite a zillion birthday parties and regular fixes of Dinosaur Egg ice cream (how do they get that much blue in anything???) -- I had somehow missed it.

Burger with a Henry's shake? Official "no brainer"

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

DC Anonymous

Have to love measures of central tendency without mention of spread. This smells more like a 'not poor' measure than one of any extreme wealth.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Dudes, that's great if you want to live in the burbs and all. Just acknowledge my original point that you can live in Dallas in plenty of affordable and safe neighborhoods.

As you were.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

vinnyv Anonymous

I wonder if they're still letting Black people live there. Last I checked the waiting list to become some rich lady's "black friend" was 1300 tokens long.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Clay213 Anonymous

What's affordable obviously depends on the person looking to do the affording. Go ahead and keep arguing about a shapeless concept.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

luniz Anonymous

plano has more soul than allen at least. and if it weren't for downtown mckinney...

but yea east plano isn't so bad.

more restaurants that aren't chains: jasmine thai, big easy, little sichuan

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

xdwx, point me to some.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Brett,

What do you guys do in Plano when you're not eating?

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

ScoD.

I did. Scroll up.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Lake Highlands homes are not only significantly higher priced per SF compared to similar sized homes I'm considering in south Plano, they're much older...meaning I'd likely have to drop a lot more in maintenance costs.

Friend of mine here at work just moved over there a couple of months ago and is already bitching about how much he's sunk into repairing/replacing basically the everything (flooring, wiring, some plumbing). He initially tried convincing me to look in same area but has since conceded that overall headache of an older home with a higher mortgage may not be worth the location.

I certainly dig the neighborhood, but not all that hassle. Also, I work in Richardson, so my commute doesn't factor in much...location would simply be for play.

To each his own.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Considering I live in Lake Highlands and work in South Plano I pretty much call BS that homes are significantly priced higher per sf, but it's your money so do with it what you please.

Many homes here are 130k to 150k for 1600 to 2000 sq ft. I know full well that compares reasonably with Plano.

Again, it's not my money so go for it. Just make sure you know what you're talking about before you rule an area out.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Many? From what I've seen, it's $200k+ unless you're the Jesus of handymen.

http://tinyurl.com/68vcz3

That's your $150k max, not exactly many options...certainly not comparable to what is available in the burbs, imo.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

That's Old Lake Highlands. Entirely different neighborhood. Lake Highlands stretches north of NW Highway to 635 and much of the area north and west of the lake as well. It's a fairly large area.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Alex Bentley Staff

Criminy, Lake Highlands, Old Lake Highlands, East Dallas, Old East Dallas, Pleasant Grove, etc. -- who the hell can keep all those neighborhoods straight? At least when I say I live in East Plano, people know what I'm talking about.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

xdwx, know of any sites that focus on home-buying in that area then? Like I said, definitely dig it...was simply under the impression it'd be a couple hundred grand on top of heightened maintenance costs.

Many homes here are 130k to 150k for 1600 to 2000 sq ft

If that's truly the case, help a guy out here!

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Collin Gouldin Verified

"At least when I say I live in East Plano, people know what I'm talking about. "

and then cringe...

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Alex - Don't forget Highland Village.

And x*x, I like the arts up here and the rec centers are great and the schools are pretty neighborly. I've lived near Garland and in Oak Lawn and that's about it Dallas-wise, so no I'm not an expert.

I'm not gonna brag about it, but I'm used to being generalized as bland and boring. There is statistical safety in blending - demographic camouflage ;o)

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Alex Bentley Staff

Don't knock it till you've tried it, Collin -- as has already been mentioned multiple times, appearances/reputation can be deceiving. I feel no shame calling East Plano home.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Don't know of any specific sites, ScoD. In that prices range you are going to buy an older home no matter where you are looking. They aren't building many new homes in Plano anymore. Mine was built in 1973. 2000 sq ft for 150k. I haven't had much in the way of repair costs, just general improvements that you have to make in most houses. Part of the cost of home ownership. There's no way around it.

In all actuality, you generally have fewer foundation issues in LH because a lot of the soil here has a deep rock base (hence the name White Rock) which is a bit more stable than what you might find in Plano.

Plus, many of the homes older than that will have pier and beam structures which are far less likely to have problems than cheap slabs that are now the norm in the burbs (unfortunately, mine is a slab).

The area of Dallas north and east of the lake is very diverse. Lots of pockets of 250k and up and plenty that are 130k, 150k and 180k. It just depends on what you want. To me, the biggest selling points are being close to the lake and also that many people are moving back to the city and away from the burbs which means your long term home appreciation tends to be a bit stronger within the 635 loop.

But like Alex said, I can't say I live in East Plano so what do I know!?

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

I feel no shame calling East Plano home.

Yeah, but you feel no shame in general.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Lots of pier and beam foundations is definitely a plus of Lake Highlands. I wouldn't mind improvements nearly as much if I could get the place for $150k or less.

This will be my first home, and I'm pretty damn frugal when it comes to fluctuating cost of anything...so I'm probably looking at ~1,600 SF for a lower energy bill (and less space in general to maintain, lol).

Also, ready access to Lower Greenville would support my inevitable drinking habit. Might be your neighbor when my lease is up. Please contain your excitement.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

I totally with you ScoD. I am a bit conservative when it comes to buying a house. I want to carry a really small loan to mitigate risk and prefer a higher efficiency, smaller home to a gargantuan McMansion. Matter of fact, I've already promised myself my next house will be smaller than 2000 sq ft. I just don't NEED the space. Fortunately, my house is uber efficient so my electricity bill is stupid low.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

James Scott Verified

I guess it all depends on what you're looking for. I was able to get my house in (Southwest Lake Highlands?...I have no idea) for about $79 sqft about 4 years ago, it is an older home, but any money I've put into it has been purely cosmetic, besides a new air-conditioner to replace the 20+ yr old one. All of which is stuff I would have done on any home > 20 yrs old. Ours just happens to be 50 yrs old, and is in pretty good shape all things considered.

Add to it being in a neighborhood with huge trees everywhere, and being less than a couple minutes from the lake and the rail, it's been a great place to live.

But like was said earlier, to each his own. But like xdav says (in summary), don't knock it till you try it - take a look at some of the homes here and their prices and you might be surprised. It's not like the M Streets or anything.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Yeah, I'm inexplicably drawn to mature trees (cougar trees, if you will). Helped my friend move some crap in after he bought his place and immediately started asking rude questions like how much it ran him, homeowners association fees, etc.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Mature neighborhoods also have the bonus of houses not looking identical to each other.

I think a majority of areas in LH don't have strong HOA's so dues are optional or don't exist and you're not beholden to any nonsense requirements like not being able to park a Ford truck in front of your house.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

alt text

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Clay213 Anonymous

Please don't encourage this guy to move to Dallas.

Thanks

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Brett Hoerner Staff

What do you guys do in Plano when you're not eating?

I live in North Dallas, like you.

When I lived in Plano I would drive to the same locations you drive to from your just-like-the-suburbs neighborhood in Dallas... I don't really understand why you feel like you're a part of something or have it better off if you're still getting in your car and driving over to Uptown or Lower Greenville. Like Doyle (if I were interested in buying a house in DFW), I'd go look around downtown Plano for a house if I were looking. At least a few bars/restaurants within walking distance, along with the DART rail - for the win. To each their own.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Dead to me!

Wasn't there discussion a few years ago about a Walnut Hill/Skillman rail station? Anything ever come of that?

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Clay213 Anonymous

If you move into the city.. just let me know where.. so this ghost can take a dump on your front door steps.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Brett, please direct your inferiority complex to someone else, thanks.

I'm simply trying to help ScoD understand there are affordable areas to live in Dallas that are near recreational areas that do not exist in Plano. Nothing more, nothing less.

Seriously, don't be a dick.

Scod,

They are putting in a new DART stop there in 2010 to coincide with the opening of the LHTC.

http://www.prescottrealtygroup.com/in...

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Ghostman, I already live in Dallas proper. Sucks to be you.

Also, damn. I thought Lake Highlands was basically just Old Lake Highlands and surrounding area that's actually near the lake (i.e. Walnut Hill and south).

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Clay213 Anonymous

As long as you stay out of my hood-- we're all good.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Yeah, it's a pretty big area. Some of the area north of 635 is a bit arbitrary since some of it is commercial area or apartments. The homes you'd be interested in are all inside the loop.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Brett Hoerner Staff

I have the complex? Hahaha.

There's nothing wrong with North Dallas (did I ever say that?), I'm just saying it's not very different from Plano, especially inside the map you just linked. Just so's it's clear, I live and work inside that there map, I'm not just throwing out random words.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

And just so it's clear, I'm not making fun of East Plano out of some supposed superiority complex, I'm doing so to give Alex a hard time.

And so it's additionally clear, I do genuinely feel that being close to a major recreational location like WRL that I can run/bike to any time I want does give LH a legitimate advantage over Plano and differentiates the area from the burbs.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Anyways.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&...

I thought the area marked on that map as Old Lake Highlands and Peninsula was basically Lake Highlands. Friend moved about 4 blocks from the lake in that area marked as Old Lake Highlands and I imagine it wasn't less than $100/SF...doubt much in that area is without being a ridiculous fixer-upper.

3 months, 1 week ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

That's just the official neighborhood association. And yes, that is pretty pricey. Mostly 250k and up and one of the best views in the entire city. There are tons of NA but the area I showed above is considered traditional Lake Highlands boundaries. Within those are tons of NA. The area below NW Highway and between the lake and over to Garland Rd. is considered Old Lake Highlands from a boundary perspective. As you move south, that area gets into what's considered East Dallas.

3 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

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