Bible study not a big draw at Tarrant County high schools

Rachel Skinner, says:

I think that's awesome and sad at the same time.<br> Awesome: Class is being offered. It's not being pushed down anyone's throat, so get off your high horses people.<br> Sad: Often times people claim to be searching for a "higher truth" and yet won't actually go out searching for it. They just expect it fall into their laps in a the same way that people think taking a pill will make them skinny.<br> Search out Truth and you WILL find it. <br> I just highly recommened that you start with the Christian bible. You'll waste less time that way.

Jason Rice, says:

x*x - don't go taking on "bliss chick" above, man. I'm thinking a grumpy looking guy versus chipper-tastic.... you're toast.

Now if you and me go head to head, we'll draw a small drinking crowd and maybe sell a few t-shirts. But I'm just saying, all I can do is throw you a towel when she smiles you into an unrecognizable pulp.

signed - a known coward

Rick Yost, says:

Rachel Skinner- From up here on this horse, I see students that aren't learning the basics needed to survive in this society. The last thing they need is to waste precious time with something that will only hinder their individual development. They're just kids- leave them alone.

We have a minimum age for buying tobacco, drinking, and driving. We should also have a minimum age for being exposed to religion.

Jason Rice, says:

Just another brick in the Baptismal font, eh, Rick?

Am I the only one that shudders when Rick says "exposed to religion"? Whatever he saw as a child has GOT to be NSFW.

Rick Yost, says:

I didn't see it as a child Jason. Happily, my parents let me decide for myself on the subject- something I'll always love them for. What I SEE, is what any sensible adult sees everyday- some can ignore it, I can't. Since it's ingrained in our culture, our society, printed on our money, swaying our politics, and now being integrated into our public education- it's no wonder most folks don't see it.

Jason Rice, says:

As I thought. Repressed trauma. You're remarkably well adjusted considering. ;o)

Jason Rice, says:

Try carrying your own literature to hand out. Kinda nips it in the bud.

Pavel Lishin, says:

Don't forget the Vedas. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Worldwide_percentage_of_Adherents_by_Religion.png">13.33%</a>!

Jason Rice, says:

Comparative religion in public schools - yes.

Specific ones - h*ll no.

Comparative studies really help the underpinnings of literary analysis, art history, social studies (whatever they call it now) and any political science, but in-depth specific philosophies are best kept out of the secular realm or moved into ... frankly ... Rick's choice of "adult" or collegiate studies.

Rick Yost, says:

bchilo3-
If you agree that kids aren't learning the basics, then why would you introduce 'spiritual' teaching into their already challenging day?
Religious kids that can't find work because they can't do basic math or put together a legible resume will grow up to live in poverty- or at least not reach their potential.
Muddle your children's minds with your doctrine if you must, just do it at home.
Let them learn the basics they need to function in society at public school.

Jason Rice, says:

Now Rick, you and I both know there is more than one well-heeled industry allowed to operate in the "religion" sector.... so that can be a valid vocational ed choice. I mean, really, how many mechanics do we need, but we have always had full "shop" classes. ;o)

Rick, you're just so fun to poke at!

Rick Yost, says:

I actually agree that religious education is important for Americans- not kids, but adults. According to David B. Barrett, the researcher who compiles religious population estimates for the Encyclopedia Britannica and World Almanac, there are about 10,000 distinct religions in the world today. With that much...stuff, spread all over the world, a basic understanding of the major sects can be a great help in understanding different cultures.
And then of course, with that many choices, if you've done your research, and you are so inclined, you'll be able to make an informed decision. I mean, you're not just going to say you 'believe' in a doctrine just because your parents believe in it, or your friends, or your neighbors. With a decision this important, you're going to want to really think about it. Right?

Rachel Skinner, says:

Rick, I'll completely agree with you about kids not getting the basic education they need in the first place. I didn't think about that, but it's so upsettingly true. I can't tell you how many of my friends in college couldn't even spell. <br> However, I don't agree on your position of equating studying the Bible to hindering kids' developments.<br> I attended both public and private schools (my own choice) and we had to take a Bible class at the private school. It was actually no big deal. I wasn't even a full believer in Jesus at that point, but it certainly didn't hinder me from learning other important stuffs. <br> And your comment on having a minimum age for being exposed to religion.... I am stunned. Never in my life have I heard something so far fetched. If anything would hinder anyone's development, that would be it. And I don't mean intellectually. Without Jesus I can <b>promise</b> you I would have committed suicide in 1998 (eighth grade). <br>The hard part is explaining to people that Jesus is not a crutch. He's not something I simply used in order to make myself a happy person. If that were possible, don't you think more people would be off the meds? <br> I am ecstatic there is no minimum age for introduction to God. If there were, I wouldn't be here today.

Rick Yost, says:

bchilo3- "Do you think that this may cloud your vision...?" - Not in the least!

"Stunned",Rachel- First off, I am pleased that for whatever reason you made it past your childhood.

And second, I have no problem with anyone being 'spiritual'. Unfortunately, spiritual folks confuse spirituality with religion. Two completely different things. It's these religious groups that spiritual folks flock to that I have a problem with.
I think that true spirituality comes from within, not someone else telling you how to be spiritual. That's being sold something.
The spirit I go to when I am in need, is the spirit in my own mind and heart. It has nothing at all to do with imaginative stories from someone in our ancient past- long dead.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and cite an exception) but I don't think there are any of the books of the bible, the koran, or any other religious scripture that was written by a child. All of these stories were from the hands of adults.
These are adult subjects- which should be only approached after childhood.
Just let them be kids.

Scott Miller, says:

Man, things sure have changed in my lifetime.

I was raised in a hard-core fundamentalist evangelical household and if there had been a bible study class in school, I'm sure I would have had a note from my parents insisting that I be excused from it since there was no way a public school was going to accurately interpret the bible in the way it was meant to be interpreted (black and white without any hint of analogy or metaphor).

Of course in those days our church was kind of a fringe religion that had no interest in being part of the larger culture.

Now we have a vice presidential candidate from the same denomination and that fact alone may be the very thing that puts her ticket over the top (God help us all).

Also, interestingly, many evangelicals I broach the subject with today don't seem to have any grasp of where the bible came from or know much about many of the characters and stories it contains, much less the context.

Jason Rice, says:

Rick, you can do better than that. C'mon.

A.A. Milne was my age when he wrote his famous treatise on non-indigenous cultures and the amalgam of peaceful coexistence within an egalitarian social framework...er.. Winnie the Pooh and frankly, I'll bet you and I agree there's more philosophy in there than anything by <span style="color: black; background-color: black;">...............</span>, <span style="color: black; background-color: black;">...............</span>, or even than windbag millionaire <span style="color: black; background-color: black;">...............</span>. <font size="-2">(props to DG)</font> And yet that gets put on the Fisher-Price table. ;o)

I dunno. I'm a hypocrite. I say "they can make their own choices" but I'm brainwashing my kids now while they're small and dependent. They've gotta have something to hate me for later, right?

Rick Yost, says:

jtmbls- Thank you for supporting, and passing on, that ever-dwindling, much-maligned, and sometimes ignored American privilege- freedom of choice.

bchilo3-I don't plan on getting into a discussion about what god is. Trust me- I've heard it all. No I mean really- more than you could imagine.

As I hang off a cliff, I don't call out to some mysterious and imaginary friend in the sky to help me up. I already realize if I don't pull myself up I'm going to die. I must muster the strength to do so.
You'd say that this strength comes from god. Why can't you accept the possibility that the strength comes from me? Or am I playing god?

Rick Yost, says:

jtmbls- I'm sorry to hear you had to admit to being a sinner as a child. That's just so sick. This is just the kind of harm that so many religious idiots love to put children through. How much control can these people really want.
At such a young age, you're barely old enough to interact with others coherently, and they've already set you up to walk-the-line or be punished.
They scare these poor kids to death with their horror stories of what will happen if they don't tow the line, and then tell them that god loves them.
Kinda warm and fuzzy huh?

AnnMarie Wilson, says:

Rick - getting in late here, been busy - in response to your FIRST post - YES!

A resounding, jumping up-and-down YES!

I and the Goddess say thank you.

AnnMarie Wilson, says:

Correction: thanks for ALL the posting Rick!

Now this book is out of print, but you might still be able to track it down: "How the Great Religions Began".

Read it as a fifth grader (no it's not a book for a fifth grade class, I was a precocious kid reading at 4).

Anyhow, it was a wonderful eye opener as to it's all the same under the cover. I was raised Roman Catholic and ran the other was as fast as possible. An amazing book.

Jason Rice, says:

Yeah a squabble with Pavel and Doyle is just ... well... not a squabble worth quibbling.

Rick is my favorite kind of atheist to tweak, thoughtful, ethical and worldly -- but with an exposed nerve you can hit from 100 yards off in bad lighting. (I still think I'll find a Gideon's under the bar some night)

::lk - now watch him flare::

Rick Yost, says:

littlekinder- Well, that's nice that they are all of 18. Wow! Progressive mind-control. Kudos! Just because you think that it's moral and of course-convenient, to send 18yr olds to war, that doesn't mean they're old enough- or we should be immoral enough to attack their individualism at such a young age.
How 'bout 36 or 37? Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't think...if they waited that long to learn about religion, they might realize they can live without such a thing. We certainly don't want that now do we?

Jason- You're killin' me! :-)

Jason Rice, says:

Rick, any world view requires a set of axiomatic leaps, reliable anchors against mutable and shifting perception.

The ability to tweak you is my northern star.

Rick Yost, says:

Jason- What some consider axiomatic, I consider pure fiction. A clear, free mind and common sense are the only reliable anchors.

littlekinder- I seem to have upset you- not my intention. I didn't mean to rattle your world.
Anyone proposing how best to teach religion, especially to those too young to realize the power it wields, will feel my 'flame' as you put it.
And in regards to the age at which it is 'safe' to expose a person to religion (in my not so humble opinion)...never! There are those as old as myself, who have yet to see the power over their own lives they've lost for the sake of fitting in, buckling under to peer pressure, or just wanting to feel safe from the unknown because life is hard.
I know this point of view doesn't make me popular.
"I am Jack's complete lack of surprise!"

I am that irritating 500lb gorilla in the room that everyone wishes would just go away. Sorry. I'm not going anywhere- not just yet.

And explain if you will, I don't understand from your post...what kind of people are you inviting to your home?

Rick Yost, says:

DC- It may be time for you to speak of me and my hubris. Kind of a public service announcement...you know!

Jason Rice, says:

Oooh. A Rick's Hubris rant. Get the popcorn. I have everything we need for smores!

Faiths aren't the only world views that require a bit of axiomatic base. Darned near every philosophy of existence has a point or two that just doesn't hold up under every experience but can be jiggled around to help explain most stuff, if not itself.

Constant speed of light pops in to mind.

But I'm guessing that's not the brianwashing we're worried about, eh?

Jason Rice, says:

LK's house is dirty? Philosophy Play-Date at The Yosts! (Philosophy without beer is religion. Religion with beer is fishing.)

Rick Yost, says:

littlekinder- Good, I'm glad we're cool! And I agree, religion is here to stay. But the public school system can't get kids to read and write correctly,(all kids) you and I know they won't handle religion any better. That is truly my point in this thread.
And I also agree- inaccuracies abound. This IS America afterall. :-+

Jason- Have you been taking your meds?

Jason Rice, says:

Meds? I'm starting to think I may be on the placebo side of the study.