UPDATED: Dallas City Council bans smoking in bars and pool halls

Tracy Yost Verified

Not sure how to actually "embed" this..... http://boatangdemetriou.files.wordpre...

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Alex Bentley Staff

Here you go, Tracy -- and, yes, you're right, but since Dallas City Council keeps talking about, so must we:

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

OT - but how did you do that ?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Alex Bentley Staff

http://www.w3schools.com/htmL/html_im...

The only problem is that linking to an offsite (i.e. non-Pegasus image) is not guaranteed to stay up as other websites' bandwidth may not be able to handle outside traffic. But feel free to try in the future!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

OK I didn't realize it was that easy, thought there was some peg-specific thing I needed to do :-) thx

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

So Tracy, what's the plan for your place if/when this does go into effect? It looks like maybe if you sold cigars you could stay as is...?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

We do sell cigars AND cigarettes but not at 20% of our total revenue, which is what's required to qualify as a "cigar bar". We may have to go into the discount cigarette business :-) Or we may go out of business entirely, if this ban causes people to stop coming out. We can ill afford a huge drop in business.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Rawlins Gilliland Verified

This one's been rehashed but: For this to be happening NOW...when independent bar owners are like everyone else on the Titanic.....bailing in hopes to not sink....is unforgivable.

For God's sakes, a lot of smokers go to bars to drink. Too many for my taste but hey....that was yesterday's point. Today's point is that we should be doing everything we can right now to support independent businesses and bar owners in a time of crisis. So what do we do? Why club them in the head and tell them that they'll get over it and even learn to like it. This is no time for a 'cure' of societal 'ills'. It's time to ask what we can do to help those in our community who are our Dallas tax base.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Tracy, so you'd be forced to enforce a "Two Smoke Minimum" just to scrape by. That's just friggin' psychotic! Like I said lots before, I hate smelling like smoke, but for cryin' out loud!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

Well, on the bright side, I suppose there is some chance that herds of rabid non-smokers will decide to become barflies when the ban goes into effect :-)

I think there is some evidence that our city council does not give a rat's a$$ about small business. Nor do I think this is a "public-health-right-to-work-in-a-smoke-free-environment" issue either, otherwise they would not be making exceptions for cigar bars.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Pavel Lishin Verified

Can you weasel your way around things? Like, "complimentary cigarette with every beer", and claim that those are "tobacco sales"?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

Oh yeh, I'm sure there are lot's of "weaseling" opportunities, and I'll bet we see lots of creativity from bar owners when the ban passes :-)

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

On a sidenote, I was at Austin Ave in Plano this weekend and it was jam packed with people all day. Business was killer and they couldn't bring beer fast enough.

Oh, and the place is smoke free.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Pavel Lishin Verified

xdwx: to be fair, there aren't that many places to drink in Plano. As far as I know, it's pretty much Austin Avenue and End Zone. Easy to succeed when there's little competition.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Robert Kelly Verified

Well they have a patio David. Who is gonna build a patio for those business that at getting Rat Screwed our fair city government?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Can't help but laugh at how uppity people get over this.

Also, I dig Tracy's optimism: Well, on the bright side, I suppose there is some chance that herds of rabid non-smokers will decide to become barflies when the ban goes into effect :-)

Never can tell! I certainly hope so!!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

x*x?!? Who are you and what have you done with him?

Plano? Austin Street? Beyonce?? what next?? room spinning... light going dimm....

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

Glad we can amuse you Scott :-)

Optimism aside, it is rather more than depressing to know that the city council can pass what is essentially a whimsical ordinance that could put us out of business. (Probably sounds like "whining" to anyone who has never birthed and reared their very own small business.)

That said, we're gonna roll with it, if it means we roll all the way over, tits up, then so be it.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Oh, and Pavel Fillmore Pub, Kelly's East Side and soon Vickery Park story

Which, of course, you'd know if you ever cared about downtown theater.... but alas....

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

But NONE of them do live jazz/blues circa Pearl.

Can you even legally play blues without nicotine?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Sorry Rice....AT has got me all mixed up and I don't know what to do with myself anymore.

Viva la smoke free bars!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Rawlins Gilliland Verified

Some of the places I know and go to...edgy watering holes where the drinking is serious and the smoking is chronic ...will see at least a 30% drop. More upscale neighborhood places and certainly see-and-be-seen types will respond positively. But why the one-size-fits-all mandate and why now?

All kidding aside kids, true alcoholics who smoke (a lot) ...and there are plenty of them in bars like I just described...see smoking a drinking as one. I doubt that I will see them as often. And I doubt that they'll come and step outside this winter when the 'need' a smoke.

Last night at Lee Harvey's at 11:00 I looked around and of the 17 people there, 14 were smoking. Last year when this was a huge debate I looked at it like: 'That ship has sailed. Book passage and shut up'. But just now? It's lousy timing for bars because 1) It's a serious economic downturn. 2) Winter.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Tracy, I meant that literally. There's not a damn thing I can offer aside from a chuckle and frequenting Pearl.

Speaking of, hopefully I can make it tomorrow night for Rick & the Sofakings!

http://www.pegasusnews.com/events/200...

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

And Rawlins, both of those issues cited are relative constants. The economy is cyclical, and we've got much more important concerns if winter stops. =p

Fact is there's never a good time for a small business to experience a reduction in customer-base. If anything, this occurring at a low point in the economic cycle is a true testament of solvency for your business model and the corresponding upswing will likely be bananas should you pull through.

Timing is a very weak argument, imo.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

generalsn Anonymous

Boston is way ahead. They want to just close tobacco shops entirely. Also, those expensive patios were just a waste of time and money. Why will Dallas be so far behing the times? http://hubpolitics.com/2008/12/09/tha...

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

There is always the roof...???

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Rawlins Gilliland Verified

Scott, 'timing' was my point because, at this moment, the local bar owners I know personally(5) tell me they are already seeing an abrupt decline in business vs. last year's ...although I understand the liquor stores are on the upswing. I'm trying to be fair; why now. Otherwise, what's in it for me? Nada. Who cares? I don't smoke and I have enjoyed smoke-free bars in other cities where I lived decades ago when these ordinances were passed there.

But if I was the owner of a divey neighborhood watering hole, clinging to survive because some of my regulars were laid off, others leaving town because their business like construction went belly up, other patron's hours cut back, others foreclosed.....not a business as usual climate... this would strike me as a depressing slap when I least could afford it.

Meanwhile, if you see this current situation we are watching cave in globally as another 'economic cycle' rather than unprecedented carnage, keep telling yourself.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

"they are already seeing an abrupt decline in business vs. last year's ..." ditto that ....

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Simply because it's potentially the lowest point in the cycle doesn't mean it ain't cyclical.

I'm not saying I want anyone to go out of business, but you can hardly blame a smoking ban on it. And crying out "Why now?" seems like nothing more than a scapegoat for bigger problems.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Chris Kidd Verified

Seeing that Austin enacted a similar ban a few years ago, they have seen business in clubs, bars and restaurants shoot through the roof, esp. the rock/music clubs which have seen their business explode. While im normally a civil liberties type and land on the rights of the business owner, I have to agree with the council that this is a dirty filthy habit than needs to be put to bed. I gave up smoking a few years ago and its been one of the best things ive ever done in my short 32 years on this planet. I dont get jittery as much, My clothes smell good and my mrs loves kissing on me more, its a win-win.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Oh gawd! I hate you uppity ex-smokers, so self-righteous. One of these days I will be just like you!

The Chantix works unbelievably well. Sometimes I go all day and don’t even think about it. There are only two or three triggers now where I actively have to fight the urge, and the only one that gets me every time is drinking alcohol. You would think I was a chain-smoker. :(

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Rick Yost Verified

I think it's a bit premature to look at the present state of this economic hari-kari as 'the lowest point in a cycle'. What cycle?

The fate of Pearl and the smoking ban aside, this 'economic downturn' as it's been called, will get exponentially worse before it gets better.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Like chrisdanger said, looking at places like Austin, NYC and entire countries in Europe, it's obvious that smoking bans aren't the end of the world for bars. Many will thrive on, some will die off. That's no different than it's ever been.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Uhh, the economic cycle. There's even a research institute named after it!

For once I concur with xdwx. I share J-Rizzice's concern for his true whereabouts and whether he perished at the hands of this imposter.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

I say call out the SWAT team. It's obviously a hostage situation.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

Well, what will the cops do if people are smoking in a bar and no one complains? Raids, SWAT, John Wiley..?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

TB - It's a Democratic administration now. They'll roll in therapists and social workers.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

Well I know that if someone breaks into your car downtown and you call the cops, they won't even come out. They will tell you to come to the police station to file a report. So it will be interesting to see how "smoking violations" compare priority-wise to "bmv" :-)

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

generalsn Anonymous

The governor of Illinois may publish a book on how to make money with smoking bans

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Chris Kidd Verified

I love how all these people are freaking out about banning smoking in bars/poolhalls/venues in this town. Heres a suggestion: Take a drive down to Austin and hit a place such as Stubbs, Emos or any other rock club/bar on 6th street. After you leave, see if you smell like an filthy, dirty ashtray. Im going to bet you dont. Now, lets apply that to Dallas, you go to a bar in uptown, downtown or ellum. You have a drink, shoot some pool, see a band and come out smelling great, save some sweat. Wheres the downside to this, as you're saving your own health and the lives of other patrons and staff at said club/bars.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

Council meeting getting underway here - http://www.dallascityhall.com/council...

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

TB – I think they call out the fire department to hose down the offender. That pretty much guarantees that person will never smoke in public again.

Tracy and Rick are going to have one huge problem if the ban does go into effect – Forget cigarettes and cigars, their bartenders will still be schmokin’!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

momzilla Anonymous

It seems to me that the market can support both smoking and non smoking facilities. Those who don't like the smell of smoke could look for the sign on the door identifying it as a smoking or nonsmoking facility. Then everybody has a place that provides the services they desire.

Many in the pro-ban camp are openly admitting that they want laws passed so that they won't have to compete with businesses who permit smoking. So if a nonsmoking facility is what the majority of the bar going public wants, why are these not able to compete?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

momzilla Anonymous

Thanks for that link, Tracy.

Right now it's a Sunday School lesson, though.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Oh Lord - The minutia! It takes our city council nearly an hour to defer an agenda item? This is painful!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Chris Kidd Verified

I wish city government was more direct and to the point, quit jacking around and get to the issue at hand instead of gladhanding and grandstanging

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

It's pretty clear several of them just like to hear themselves talk. I don't see how anything ever gets done.

They sure scooted around the cigar issue in a hurry though, didn't they? Second!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

smoking ban next up!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Alex Bentley Staff

11:23 -- we're off!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Alex Bentley Staff

Motion to delay vote until February failed -- stay tuned...

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

causing me to miss my lunch break ;-<

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

LOLZ..."DON'T BUILD A HOTEL MAYOR!"

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

go Bob Allen !!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

Let's bring the kids up...we all know they hang out in bars and pool halls...clap and say how cute it is everyone..

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

THE... D.N.A.. History on building and spending in Dallas by the City or Township dates back to the Third Courthouse in the 1870s, Trinity River in the 1880s, Roads built and a number of other Progams Capitolist should do ...The Township of Dallas will provide, as some grey area comes into this, which would later would become.......poor.. Karma...now the Court House later burned, the Trinity River dried up two years in a row and 5 people were killed or robbed on new Highways, it is told..... The new Hotel ideal to be built... is again, looks like poor judgement and besides, I still back Harlan Crow, because he knows that area....and i am still overcast...with the virus..A/T

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Yay! AT is back!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

What left of me for 2008, this old lizard will have to shed some more skin soon to become 2009, Monkey bean, besides, your facing a bigger picture yourself for 2009.A/T, flu Man.....does anyone have a smoke....

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

Man, there is a reason why I don't watch the City Council meetings on a regular basis...I don't have a problem going outside to smoke, but the fifteen feet rule seems to be a bit much if you ask me.

They really haven't talked much about enforcement either, which should be interesting to see how it works.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

No nanny state!

Yep, booze is next!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

The anal code for enforcement is pretty much like Salt Lake City, or a Moslem Masque, you dont descrate the enviroment with human addiction...and Dallas has come up with the North Texas code....really..ok my blood up again, why do we listen to these laws...IMAGE, besides smoking was Amercian...A/T. Flu man, does anyone smoke roll tobacco..

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

booze is next!

No drinking within 15 feet of the bar, eh? I can get the experience AND bring my own booze, guilt-free!

Gotta hand it to those city council members. Always looking out for the little guy.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Teresa Gubbins Staff

i'm enjoying watching DMN whiz Dave Levinthal live-blog from city hall wherein he both reports on the city council meeting while simultaneously responding to comments. an old roommate of dave's just asked, "Dave, are you my roomate who worked for Dallas Morning News who lived with me at UTA years ago?"

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

Probition is about solutions behind the tax desk...and it has to exist..how else do we realize vice and the choice of our many good refinements, while to Moslem base and transform our Christian virtues, it is going on...and we are ignoring what.....21st Century solution, why not out law....poor spending of these tax dollars...A/T, Fluman..

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

I'm thinking my bar is a privately contracted meeting hall. Every night.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

Then fall on another statue and invite some real stones over....A/T, Love your curves..

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

Haha! Tracy, I think you guys need to get some pool tables ASAP!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

Or some...spitoons...A/T, Lover of Southern tobacco.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

Hey TB, we have some!! They are upstairs in the private meeting hall !!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Teresa Gubbins Staff

does anyone else find it annoying that City councilman Sheffie Kadane just motioned to exempt bars from the smoking ordinance expansion? i mean, jeez, that's the whole point of the thing. just vote no if you're against it.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

not any more annoying than the amendment to exempt pool halls

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Kadane is a fool. Here comes the final vote...passes..woot!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

they just voted - it passed.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Alex Bentley Staff

Three hours and 13 minutes -- sheesh!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Not that I'm judging, but considering the solitude of the "private meeting hall" and the peeps I've seen wander up there...I probably won't be touching those pool tables, Tracy.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

I got a small humidor for sale.... and some ashtrays. If anyone is interested....

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

They still didn't really say how this is going to be enforced. Will we now have cops going around to bars and other places making it their mission to bust smokers who are not within 15 feet of compliance? Or maybe it will be the nerdling city guy with the bald head and the bow tie trying to give the drunk people $200 fines.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

I... AM........ but I want a flying Venus kiss first....A.T , Art lover and cigar smoker..

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

I thought they were mentioning early on that they would start out with "complaint based" enforcement.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

All I saw was the guy standing next the the City's schiester saying that his office would be in charge of enforcement. Must have missed that part, so what is "compliant based" enforcement and how does that work, anyone?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Mike Bullock Staff

I wonder how this will effect private clubs and organizations, Elks, VFW's, etc.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

The same way it effects the rest of the bars and clubs. Private or public, still banned.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

I think it just means, if someone calls to complain that people are smoking at Pearl, they send someone out to investigate. As the gentleman was describing his duties, he said that "if there is evidence that the owner has requested no smoking, they focus on the patron". (regarding who to levy the fine against). I assume they have this process all worked out due to the smoking ban in restaurants.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

It is an Immage affect for 2009...So will a hundred other unique dress codes for the fashion statement on DALLAS, as... the city of.... COLD GLOVES...A/T. Fashion Police.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Apparently you will be required to invest in some new signage as well Tracy.

They said that officers would use the “common sense approach” – take that however you want.

So, now all the really health conscious drinkers can drink without risking their health. Makes perfect sense! The Taliban, err - I mean the Dallas city council has given me a headache.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

And let us not forget that it's all for the children...now they can drink their vodka gimlets and play pool without being bothered by smokers.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

DYSNEYLAND DALLAS... a place of disfunction and delight......no smoking please.....

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Chris Kidd Verified

Ya know, I love the outcry of people when it comes to smoking, when most of your probably arent smokers. As a former smoker, this is about the best decision this towns made in a loooong time.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

How would you like to be the code enforcement officer that has to hand out citations over there at some of the finer establishments off C.F. Hawn?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Oh, we could have FORMER SMOKER printed on his uniform!

If I had a nickle for every non-smoker who bummed a cigarette off me because "they only smoke when they drink", I would be living in Bimini right now.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Besides, the bigger issue here is not about the smoker but about the city of Dallas squashing the rights of business owners.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

"I would be living in Bimini right now."

Oh to dream...

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

Smoking become a Black market commidity by 2012, in Waterworld the movie....the Smokers had a great package for their character played by Dennis Hopper...A/T, Film Observer.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

A.T., it is probably a bit early to go from inconvenience to apocalyptic vision..:D

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

Your right , this flu stuff is just made me so Waterworld......sorry...T.B...BUT I still love the line about Dennis Hopper and he loves cigars and he wont be in Dallas for a while..

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Bill Holston Verified

I hate smoking and being around smoke. It's one of the things I didn't like about all of the live music I saw last year, that and having a parent and friend die from cancer makes me despise the industry. I'd just as soon give a dollar to Al Queda.

However, this is a bad law. Way to put more pressure on already struggling small businesses! This is a wrongheaded law.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

My great grandfather smoked cigars for years,unlike Usyless Grant who smoked 37 cigars a day and died of throat cancer or Bogart... who died of throat cancer/...Tobacco is dangerous, so is eating and driving and drinking and......

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Clay213 Anonymous

OK, it passed.

Now why hasn't anyone bothered to report on when it goes into effect? How about what the ban specifically covers? Fines? Etc..

Step it up. Please.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

I'm not even sure if City Council knows how it is gonna work yet...

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Teresa Gubbins Staff

clay, the only thing i've seen so far is that the ban goes into effect on april 10

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

I hate smoking and being around smoke. It's one of the things I didn't like about all of the live music I saw last year, that and having a parent and friend die from cancer makes me despise the industry. I'd just as soon give a dollar to Al Queda.

However, this is a bad law. Way to put more pressure on already struggling small businesses! This is a wrongheaded law.

Pretty amazing comment, Bill. I'm not sure I even have to point out why.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

momzilla Anonymous

My husband's library is still a safe haven for tobacco users. It may soon be the only one in Texas. And we have entertainment! Roy Orbison on HD cable tonight, although if we frequently have live music if we leave the door open and our daughter is practicing her piano. Rock band competitions on the PS3 whenever her friends are hanging out. BYOB, clean up after yourself, and don't be mean to our dogs even if they are annoying ... they live here and you don't.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Clay -

Like TGub says, goes into effect April 10. Fines are $200 for smoker and club. Bans are for all smoked items in a public building that isn't a legal cigar bar or tobacco shop. Cigar bar defined as a place that earns 15% or more of their revenue due to tobacco products.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Rick Yost Verified

And as for those two f--k heads who want to invade my car- give me a f--king break. How much of my rights do you really want to take from me??? Is this still the land of the free?

We'll deal with the bar thing- stay out of my car!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

James Scott Verified

So is this what may allow some businesses like the Hookah to stay in business (assuming, they 15% of their revenues come from Hookahs?). Although, I can't imagine that much of their revenue is from Hookahs - unless they raise the prices significantly. In other words - they're probably toast.

This will probably take care of hookahs in other Mediterranean restaurants that have hookahs on the side too.

As a non-smoker, it's hard for me to decide how I feel about the law. On the one hand, it's great b/c I'd much rather be in a place w/out smoke than with. But I realize there may be some threat of those places not being there if business is bad.

I guess I just want to say to all those with businesses to not freak-out just yet. You might lose lots of customers that absolutely can't stand to go anywhere where they can't smoke - but you might be surprised by the addition of customers that might show up now that there isn't smoke.

There are lots of places that I can think of that I might go much more often now that they and myself won't smell like an ashtray the entire night. I can't imagine I'm the only one that feels this way.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Thank heavens. Someone plugged Yost back in.

I was starting to think that "Superman/Clark Kent" think applied to AT and Yosti.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Man, Yost disregards the ban to call out thieves (I'm guessing they're thieves)? Cold day today...is this hell?

Car issues of my own, sir - really wanted to make it tonight. Not sure how often I'll be heading out in the coming months, too, depending on what kind of estimate Mr. Mechanic throws at me tomorrow. =(

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

James and Bill both have reasonable positions, in my opinion. I don't think I will stop going to bars simply because I can't smoke there. Also, I was thinking that when it comes to local politics, people are a lot more conservative than one might think, including the long hairs, smokers, jokers and midnight smokers. Today's decision was far from that traditional point of view.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

James -

Yes, if they can sell 15 percent of their rev to tobacco and renting hookahs then they can legally smoke.

And to your second part, 80 percent of the public doesn't smoke so I can't help but to think any die hard smoker so put out that they can't walk out the front door to smoke would be easily made up by people like me who always try to find new smoke free places to drink.

Yost - Out of curiosity, what do you think of seatbelt laws?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

I believe Rick was specifically talking about the amendment to make it a class C misdemeanor to smoke in your vehicle with anyone under the age of 18 inside. (One would think this would be a no-brainer.) I missed that vote but am guessing it didn’t stand?

And it’s tokers Trav…midnight tokers…

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Alex Bentley Staff

jtmbls is right -- there were a total of 10 amendments proposed, including one that would have made it illegal to smoke in a car with a minor (under 18) present. That one didn't come close to being included. The only amendment that passed was lowering the level that cigar bars must earn from tobacco sales in order to earn exemption from 20% to 15%.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Clay213 Anonymous

Smoking in bars and clubs was one of my least favorite things of moving to Dallas. Boston ended this ages ago. I had forgotten what it was like to wake up with a bloody nose every morning after going out.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

momzilla Anonymous

Is that why there are so few good and active pubs left in Boston? Last time I was up there, there wasn't much going on in the evenings downtown. Certainly not the level of activity we saw ten years ago.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

I'm pretty biased regarding that car thing.

Not sure about y'all, but my parents have smoked the entire time I've been on this earth (wouldn't doubt if ma smoked throughout the pregnancy) and I abhor it. In the car, in the house, etc...can't begin to explain how much better I felt after going off to college and getting away from it.

Class C misdemeanor is steep, imo - but I can't say I'm opposed to a citation of some variety for smoking in a car carrying minors.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

"I had forgotten what it was like to wake up with a bloody nose every morning after going out."

You sure that was caused by second hand smoke?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Yeah, nice cover story there Clay. Mom and Dad buy that one?

Funny to think about how prevalent it was once upon a time. If you ever get a chance to watch the TV show Mad Men, it is so bizarre to see people smoking in their doctor's office like it’s no big deal.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

Heck I remember when we could smoke inside El Centro..

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

Times have changed and new probitions come in with new fashion statements, while Dennis Hopper wont be smoking a cigar in Dallas, Los Angles has a simular effect now...it is the future.............streamline the auidence into saying.... YES........A/T...Urban smoker.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

I understood Yost's point. My question with respect to the "land of the free" related to seatbelts. I'm sure most of us agree seatbelts are a good idea and not many would try to overturn the law that allows cops to right you a ticket for infractions.

I'm not sure how mandating seatbelts for public safety is all that much different than mandating smoke free cars for kids. It's not like kids can choose not to breath it.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Rick Yost Verified

I'm not arguing against seatbelts. I'm not arguing the health hazards of smoking.
I'm not even arguing that children deserve a smoke-free environment. They certainly do.
What I am arguing against is the intrusion.

It's obvious I can't keep the government and the rest of the busy-bodies out there, out of my business. They're talking about invading the privacy of my car, and of course the next thing will be my home.

Get a life and stay out of mine.

Until you folks decide you can't handle not having control of my mind and create a law against it...I'm thinking bad, nasty, un-healthy thoughts.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

You tell em Rick......A/T. VOICE OF THE PEOPLE.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Amen! I wish I could remember which Senator it was who had a nifty little quote while speaking on the auto bailout today. “A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything away.”

I am off to drink and smoke whilst still allowed by law.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Still don't understand the logic of not being opposed to seatbelts but being opposed to not smoking in the car.

Both laws are public safety.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Robert Kelly Verified

David- driving is a privilege, last I checked, owning a business and doing what you want with it isn't. Although I guess it is getting to be.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

I'm not talking about a business. I'm simple talking about smoking in a vehicle vs wearing a seatbelt.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

momzilla Anonymous

I was opposed to the mandatory seat belt laws for adults as well. I've always worn one myself, but believe that laws mandating seat belts and motorcycle helmets interfere with natural selection.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

ch0 Anonymous

Arkansas does the "no smoking in car if kids present" thing. Not sure how well it's being enforced, or even able to be effectively enforced.

@ ScoDo: I hear ya on the growing up around smokers thing. My best friend grew up in a similar situation, and as an adult he's obsessive about having fresh-smelling clothes, even on the occasions that he chooses to smoke socially.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Rick Yost Verified

AT- Yeah, right! "THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE." Like there's really such a sentiment anymore.

In an environment like this, where one thing leads to another in terms of legislation- the domino effect of individual rights is in full fall.

As long as folks feel comfortable considering themselves part of the 'public' in public safety, or the entitled 'greater' in the greater good- the rights of the individual will only continue to dwindle.
The more people continue to accept being treated as 'the masses', instead of the individuals we are, the easier we are to control.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

I gotta be honest. I feel like my individual rights are much better off now that I can have a drink without being subject to the smoke of the masses.

I suppose individual rights is in the eye of the beholder.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

On the up side, Rick. To celebrate your loss of autonomy, I'll drag the kids down next time you're playing. Everybody knows that bars are the best place for kids.

That's what this whole thing is about right? The Kids. And Bars. So the Kids at Bars.

My neighbor wants to come too. You do have a changing table on each floor, right?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

DC Anonymous

It's fantastic this passed. Hooray for everyone!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

Rick, be sure and seat DC next to the changing table downstairs ;o)

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Rick Yost Verified

"Fantastic!"- think of the jobs lost. "Hooray!"- think of the added stress to already hurting businesses.
This is really great! When all you had to do was simply go somewhere else.
But sleep tight my sweet- you don't have to worry about that problem anymore. You now have things the way you want them because you're so special.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

But Rick, isn't the guvment s'posed to give us all our jobs now?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

ch0 Anonymous

Neighborhood Code Violation Snitch - Free

Public Statute Infraction Monitor - $8/hour

Closed-minded Superiority Monger - Priceless

WWJD?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Rick Yost Verified

Jason- I thank you for the suggestion, and as poignant as it was, I never skirt issues that are important- cut to the chase. Since DC is obviously a non-smoker, I know she will come out and support us when the ban goes into effect. After all, we've changed the way we do things for her/him, whatever!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

cho - WWJ-Disallow?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Rick Yost Verified

"Closed-minded Superiority Monger" I can't think of a better way to put it. Unless... funny, I do remember someone once accusing me of being hubristic. Shoe...other foot; pot...kettle, you get the idea. Funny how life works. Not!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

snowboard9 Anonymous

YAY! I just got back from Miami last night and heard the GREAT NEWS with text messages from my Dallas friend. Finally, Dallas joins the rest of the larger metro ares in the country with the obvious thing to do for their citizens.

I will send Angela Hunt a big thank you (on Facebook) and hope the whining is at a minimum. Of all the things made illegal, this is the best one of all compared to the other "freedoms" denied. > Freedom to litter the highways - DENIED > Freedom to erect new Billboards - DENIED > Freedom to leave dog poop - DENIED > Freedom of construction w/O trees- DENIED > Freedom to pollute the air - DENIED > Freedom to dump used oil in sewer- DENIED

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Freedom of same sex couples to marry - DENIED

Still happy?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

DC Anonymous

Truth is this will greatly increase our spending at places just like Pearl.

I understand some people will be upset, but it's not like restaurant and bar owners are the only people in business who have to comply with local, state and federal legislation.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

DC Anonymous

As for jconsonants, it's just a matter of time. Mandatory gay marriage for all is just around the corner.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

True (to your first comment) but the list of things I can decide for myself is dwindling every day and it makes me just a little uncomfortable. I am not a child and quite capable of making my own choices and living with the consequences of those choices. As cho said, Natural Selection is a beautiful thing. It seems strange to me that people think they can live my life better than I can.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

lol @ jconsonants.

Concur with DC on this. There's smokers who can take it outside (read: most of them), and there's smokers who hold such a grudge that they'll just stay home - I don't think many of us want to be around the latter anyways.

I severely doubt most people who smoke while they drink will refuse to go to bars...if anything, I'd think the amount of non-smokers more excited to hit the town exceeds the few bitter smokers wallowing in sorrow at home (as opposed to those doing so in the cold at least 15 feet from the entrance). =p

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

And jtm, for the gazibillionth time - nobody's saying you can't, just limiting where you can.

Such is the nature of pretty much any legal system, btw...cats in charge are more than happy to promulgate more and more laws without retracting previous ones.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Alex Bentley Staff

One very interesting thing to come out of watching the proceedings Wednesday that I hadn't thought of before was the possible migration of smokers in North Dallas bars to Addison and possibly other cities without such laws. I agree with Scott that bars toward the center of Dallas will still see the majority of customers they already have, but outlying ones may be a different story.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

And for the gazilbillonth time, it's not the smoking thing for me. I actually do believe this is for the best and will only help me in my bid to quit. One gets tired of shivering outside and it is already, most of the time, not worth it. It's the principal of the matter.

I am more than halfway to being a pompous non-smoker glaring and fake coughing at those too weak to rein in their vices.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

momzilla Anonymous

And if the business owners follow the smokers, that reduces the city's tax base. This is why many businesses and city leaders are lobbying for a statewide ban.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

momzilla Anonymous

jtmbls: You need to ask Santa for some of these http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/200708...

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Oh that's hilarious! Hope they’re fireproof too!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

I may start selling these....http://minicigarette.net/

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

or these....http://smokingeverywhere.com/whatisit.php

"Smoking Everywhere E-Cigarette will provide smokers the same delight, physical and emotional feelings they get in smoking traditional cigarettes, but without all the problems that is related with traditional smoking. The main reasons people use Smoking Everywhere E-Cigarette includes: healthier way to smoke, freedom to smoke anywhere and everywhere, no first or second hand smoke, no smoke or odor, non-flammable, convenient and cheaper than traditional cigarettes."

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

lol @ follow smokers - again, anybody so needy for a cig inside rather than out that they'd go to the next town over to drink can leave, imo. Won't miss 'em.

(saying this as a non-bar owning, non-smoking individual - naturally)

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

momzilla Anonymous

Well, Tracy, maybe you can rent a little room next door with a separate entrance and establish a cigar bar.

My husband visited one of these in NYC while he was there on business last week. It consisted of a tiny room with a bar that sold nothing but cigars, and a couple of tables with chairs. $8 cover, no music. Just a barstool or chair and ash trays, and quiet place to share a smoke and conversation out of the weather.

I wonder if it would violate the law if the adjoining venue's cover charge gave free entrance to the separate cigar bar?

I guess it works in NYC since everything is so close. Since I haven't been to Pearl, I don't know if there is much foot traffic outside. (Nothing personal, I just rarely venture outside Tarrant County.)

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

Hi Mom- Unfortunately, "renting a little room next door" is not an option, nor is a patio. However, we do have a whole second floor that could be used as a tobacco shop. The problem with that idea is that our city council, in their infinite wisdom, put verbiage into the ordinance that seems to preclude any NEW cigar bars from opening. I'll definitely be looking for clarification on that!!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

I still vote for opening a patio on the roof.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

J- we would need a lot of people to vote with their wallets for that one ;-)

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Ooo - I like that electronic cigarette. Maybe it's just the presentation - very glamorous-ish.

That water vapor would wreak havoc on the hair though.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

momzilla Anonymous

Hmmm... verbiage precluding opening "new" cigar bars just reaffirms that this isn't about ensuring a smoke free environment for the nonsmokers but rather about controlling what other adults choose to do. I guess it makes a certain type of people feel better about themselves when they are able to conform other people to their own chosen behaviors.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

Mom - exactly. The whole story about "right to work in a smokefree workplace" just doesn't hold up, simply because they are making exceptions for existing cigar bars - what? nobody works there? OR, their health is not important?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

And what is going to happen if the original business moves or sells? They will lose their grandfather...so to speak...Eventually cigar shops and smoke shops will become extinct.

I guess everyone will be buying them online by then anyway.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

and you'll have to move to Cuba to be able to smoke one of them....anywhere!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Wait...Are we ALLOWED to go to Cuba?

I feel like I'm 14 and grounded.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

dangit I forgot, you can't go to cuba either. last I heard, you can still go to mexico, but you might get kidnapped!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

Say...Curves.... Cuba is where the cigar was invented and the Dictators of that country allow smoking, A/T, Cigar band collector.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Howard Wen Verified

There's the argument that's already been stated here that many bars may see an increase in revenue -- from non-smokers who decide to start visiting and hanging out in the businesses more. And casual smokers, who aren't able to smoke inside, might wind up buying more drinks to make up for their unfulfilled nicotine "fix". In other words, bars could stand to make more money off of booze sales. (They hardly make money from cigarettes.)

Most of us here I imagine know of a divey type of bar, maybe we even patronize them from time to time, smoker and non-smoker alike... you know the kind of place, where most of the patrons are smokers. Places like these will be affected the most by the ban. Maybe they will even lose business and close, due also to this economy. But I doubt the City Council cares about places like these -- or the majority of the people who frequent bars in Dallas County either. Basically, divey, smokey places are regarded by certain segments of our city as being "lower class" and blights upon the areas where they are located, so if this smoking ban shuts them down, even better, is what the Council and these people feel.

As for the Addison argument (that people will go to bars in Addison more), the admittedly few times I've been to the more well known Addison bars (like The Londoner and Flying Saucer), I didn't see many smokers. Looks like Addison people are more health conscious, hence, why the city doesn't impose such a restrictive smoking ban. They don't feel it's necessary, probably.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Oh boy...

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

These folks need to take some time out on this debate and have a smokers break...A/T.... Pure air in a bottle.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Pavel Lishin Verified

Howard: I guess you're right, I don't see that many smokers in Addison, and I rarely notice the smell of cigarettes in the Saucer (unless I'm with smokers myself.)

I hope this doesn't change. Would people too lazy to step outside to smoke make the (potentially much longer) drive?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Clay213 Anonymous

There are definitely some people that should be wearing diapers and chewing on a pacifier... quit your crying.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

James Scott Verified

Howard - I agree with some of your points, although I don't really get that impression about Addison not being smokey (especially the Londoner). Also, it's weird going to a restaurant and still being asked "smoking or non?".

As for the "divey" smokey places going out of business, I have to think these places won't be going anywhere for a while, as I don't see enforcement happening anytime soon. I think those that "depend" on smokers will be glad to pay a $200 fine if and when code enforcement actually happens to show up.

It's been years since the restaurant smoking ban, and I still see some restaurants that have all but forgotten about it and allow their patrons to smoke - even though they're not supposed to.

That being said, I think the ones that survive will be those that actually have a little more to offer than just a divey bar, like our friend's Pearl (not that some divey bars aren't cool, but others...not so much).

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Yeah, I'm out in Addison more than I am Dallas and there are always lots of smokers. Duke's, Sherlock's and Blackfinn...Even Kenny's busts out the ashtrays after the dinner crowd thins out.

Well there's an idea I hadn't thought of...just give them the finger and pay the fine.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Tracy Yost Verified

There is also some verbiage in the ordinance that says something to the effect of "revoked business operating licenses for repeat offenders"....

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

The times are changing, and the laws will be enforced, while the new smokers speakeasies will open up soon after...or club smoker....a/t..Urban Machine..

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Rick Yost Verified

So...an artist creates a work of art. He displays his creation on a wall in a building and invites all who appreciate art to come view it.
Some come to see it. Some like it a lot. Some don't care for it. The artist is fine with this outcome.
However, the longer the art hung on the wall, the more some people became dis-enchanted with its design. Some felt it would be a much nicer work of art if only it were changed to their liking.
Some people who'd never even seen the art, were clamoring to have it changed.

So the artist was coerced to change his creation- a work that he had poured tremendous effort, talent, and all his resources into- a creation that he was quite proud of and loved just the way it was.

But he was forced to change it. Then different folks liked it. Some that used to like it, now thought it was not near as nice. They felt it was now just like all the other art that hung on the walls of the town. And they were right. It now was almost indistinguishable from all the other art available to view.

The artist was heartbroken. Not because he was made to change his creation. Not because he was now no different than all the rest of the artists in the town. He was sad because he realized that many of the people in town were lacking the imagination needed to see and appreciate art for what it is. They only saw art as something they used to make themselves feel special.
Creative art was not what they wanted at all.

Soon all the art hung on the walls of the town was replaced with mirrors. Then all the town's people were happy.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Miko, help me out here.

When was the last time we hit 175 comments in a thread? If only people were as passionate about truly significant matters as their cigs...

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

ch0 Anonymous

Rick Yost, you just described my career.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Rick Yost Verified

Doyle's right, I did my last little 'artsy' thing- I'm outta here.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

If we called Cigarettes "Cesar Chavezes" none of this would have happened.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Rawlins Gilliland Verified

I was initially for this as a non-smoker (20 years) and lately against it as a friend of independent bar business owners, especially in this, the worst economic crisis since the 1930s (and counting). Now it's passed, so it's over.

As as someone (me) who swung into my neighborhood bar for a fast happy hour beer ...alone today at the bar while I grazed my laptopy......only to be joined by two smokers on my right and then two on my left. I left after one beer.

I tried to be fair about this issue... and having done so on behalf of independent bar owners and their freedoms to create the bar environment they choose...I can now happily anticipate not feeling like a slab of ribs being routinely 'smoked' in 2009.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

OMG! Doyle - Quit being a dips#it! This is so much bigger than having a smoke!

Rick - That was beautiful. True poetry. As is the work you have created and invested your life in. Thanks to you and to Tracy for your fortitude and bravery.

It is sickeningly apparent that Dallas is on a precipice and too many people here would love to see our city as nothing more than a cookie cutter copy of the so called City of Angels. A city that proffers such a beautiful façade, spending multi-millions to achieve nothing but an illusion. Prepare yourself Citizens for the moment of truth when you scratch the stunning surface and find the dark and empty insides.

If we must look to an example to follow, at least New York has maintained its integrity. They have made room for every walk of life. And I may be mistaken here, but I believe they have strong smoking regulations.

Here is the bigger question. What do you want your city to become? We can build and paint and make it all look pretty on the outside or we can embrace every walk of life, make room for every lifestyle and build DALLAS CULTURE. The real story. Not the made for TV version.

The video in the other thread that I am either too lazy or too boozed to link to that DC considered a whole lot of nothing should be a red flag to you all. We have an opportunity here to make Dallas what it should be. I suggest that we stand out as opposed to falling in.

So suck it Doyle! :-b

p.s. Tracy - I am planning and or available for a ton of parties for 2009. Have the contracts ready!!!

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

::I did my last little 'artsy' thing

I thought the Battle Hymn of the Republic in the background was a truly great touch, Rick.

I think I speak for all our fellow citizens when I say "doubleplusgood."

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Come now, surely you all know I have nothing against Rick.

I'm simply saying it's amazing the extent to which people will fight for their vices...while so many more important issues fall through the cracks. This is a drop in the bucket from where I'm sitting.

Obviously it's easy for me to take a panoramic view of the situation since my preferred outcome was chosen - but seriously. I would really like to know what other threads have 175+ comments.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

momzilla Anonymous

Some of us are amazed at the extent to which some people will fight for the right to control other adults' personal property and choices.

JTMBLS: You rock. If my son wasn't already married, I'd nominate you for daughter-in-law.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Clay213 Anonymous

jtmbls: Maybe you should move to Kansas City. They are really authentic there. You can still smoke in restaurants.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason Rice Verified

::what other threads have 175+ comments

If we'd just agree to call Cigarettes "Cesar Chavezes" we could have these long threads day in and day out.

But nobody's listening... ::sigh::

A more interesting angle is to compare smokers' rights to gay rights. The old British Sodomy Laws slowly eroded under the very same arguments that Rick and Tumbles presented while being defended by the same "family" and "health" banners (that I quietly personally agree with) as above.

If it's okay for one outdated but currently hip "vice" to roll haltingly into acceptance, and another to be cast out for being merely "out of vogue" ... am I alone in feeling too scared to giggle at the irony?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

momzilla, if you're amazed by politicians' thirst for control...apparently you haven't been paying attention to life. It's not their right, it's their role - hence their ability to make policy.

Can we burn the dead horsie now? Any other way to prevent further beatings?

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Pavel Lishin Verified

Scott: I'm simply saying it's amazing the extent to which people will fight for their vices

You have no idea what I'd do if they outlawed alcohol.

Of course, I wouldn't even be pretending to be high-minded and concerned about the gross intrusions on personal freedom. I'd be too busy burning things.

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

alexander troup Verified

Speake easy and fine,while they move the new smokers location undergound....kind of like a Chinese Smokers Den..an old saying you cant fight City Hall and come out ok in 5 years later on....oh you may win, but someone has to fall..let the smoking probition begin...and find a better location to hold freedom in your palm....A/T.the Urban Archaeology of a Smokers Den 2047,

11 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Jason - Point well made. You are not alone but it seems to be a light crowd.

clay - After you.

10 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Travis Bush Verified

"Just wait until they start making cover charges mandatory -everywhere -"

I think Doyle's religion calls such an event Barmageddon..

10 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Doyle Verified

Girls and beer kegs are much more important to me than whether or not peeps can smoke inside or have to step outside. Thanks for supporting my point!

10 months, 4 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

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