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Content from our friends over at Dallas Voice

Friday, December 12, 2008 , Updated

Dallas gay bars will benefit from smoking ban, says Tavern Guild leader

32

Michael Doughman

The debate over a smoking ban in bars has been billed as a battle between health advocates concerned about the impacts of secondhand smoke and business owners worried about losing customers.

But the executive director of the Dallas Tavern Guild, an association of about 20 local gay and lesbian bars, said recently he believes the smoking ban will ultimately benefit most members.

“I don’t anticipate us losing business,” DTG Executive Director Michael Doughman said before the ordinance passed. “Actually I think that we will probably gain business. There are probably a lot of people who don’t come to bars simply because of the smoke issue.”

The Dallas City Council voted 10-5 on Wednesday, Dec. 10 to expand the city’s smoking ordinance to prohibit the activity inside bars, billiard halls and other indoor workplaces. The new ordinance, which exempts tobacco shops, cigar bars and hookah bars, is set to take effect April 10.

Doughman said a majority of the Tavern Guild’s members supported the expanded smoking ordinance given that it won’t apply to patios. Under the ordinance, smoking will be prohibited within 15 feet of the entrances to bars, unless the area is considered a patio.

“We wanted most of all to be a voice of compromise and not create a situation that would require us to have to exclude a portion of our clientele,” Doughman said in a statement after the ordinance passed. “We feel that most all of our clubs will be able to manage this policy without much difficulty and accommodate our smoking customers at the same time. … I also want to acknowledge that not all of our member clubs are in support of the ban and we have genuine concerns for the rights of those who smoke and worked hard to assure the exemptions of patios and other outside areas.”

Tavern Guild members who opposed the ban included the owner of Illusions, a gay bar on Maple Avenue that lacks a patio.

Eddie Bonner, owner of Illusions, said Thursday morning he’s in the process of recruiting other business owners and organizations to initiate legal action against the city in an effort to prevent the ordinance from taking effect.

“My guess would be that if I’m not able to relocate or [add a patio], which I don’t think I can, and that ban goes into effect April 10, my guess would be within 30 to 60 days I wouldn’t have any other choice [but to close],” Bonner said.

The new smoking ordinance carries a $200 fine that can apply to both individual violators and business owners. But Alan Pierce, co-owner of the Round-Up Saloon and treasurer of the Tavern Guild, said he believes citations will be rare.

“It’s not like one person lights up and somebody is going to automatically call the health department,” Pierce said. “We will handle it ourselves first. Ultimately if somebody were to really refuse and be belligerent they’d be asked to leave. We won’t be calling for enforcement unless something really bizarre happens.”

The two city councilmembers who represent the Oak Lawn area, Angela Hunt and Pauline Medrano, voted in favor of the expanded smoking ordinance. Also voting in favor of the ban was Councilman Dave Neumann, who represents heavily gay areas of Oak Cliff.


Pegasus News content partner - Dallas Voice
The community newspaper for gay & lesbian Dallas.


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realpower1, says:

I belive that the elimination of smoking will be beneficial for the gay bars of Dallas. Not only will the majority of the smokers continue to patronize them, the new Customer base will be better educated and more affluent.

Anonymous

11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Travis Bush, says:

the new Customer base will be better educated and more affluent.

Somehow I doubt the patrons of Oak Lawn nightclubs read Proust while dancing to the Village People.

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Pavel Lishin, says:

Is there any sort of correlation between smoking and affluence/education?

I mean, it seems like it should make sense. Smoking is bad for you, so smart people wouldn't smoke - but just because something seems like it should make sense doesn't mean it does.

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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DC, says:

Table 4.1

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/s...

Anonymous

11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Pavel Lishin, says:

Science!!

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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snowboard9, says:

Good article. They can count me in as incremental business and many of my friends. The projection of incremental business is sound.

Today mnay of us refuse to go to the bars because of the smoke except for maybe New Years or something. This is a great thing!

Anonymous

11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Russ Vandeveerdonk, says:

I did not know there were "heavily gay areas" in Oak Cliff?

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Jason Rice, says:

::"heavily gay areas"

"heavily gay" - Is that the new politically correct term for portly "Bears"?

<font size="1">sorry - not hip enough to know, here</font>

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Clay213, says:

I think it's just a trendy euphemism for gentrification.

Anonymous

11 months, 2 weeks ago
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alexander troup, says:

They dont have heavy gay areas in Oak Cliff, they have very respectable large Communities of same sex survivor's.....Living in an area by Kessler Park as the 21st Century language could be observed, besides...Russ we are all learning about labels and original fabels of whos living where in the Metroplex,and this is a hard city to read and tell..A/T, Urban Shrink.

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Jason Rice, says:

::euphemism for gentrification

LOL! Brilliant. That would work.

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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RODOM, says:

It's the nature of governments to pass rules that benefit one group of people at the expense of another. Smokers: tough luck. Non-smokers: you're in.

Anonymous

11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Pavel Lishin, says:

"euphemism for gentrification."

Does that work vice-versa, too? If someone comes up to me and says "I'd like to gentrify you later on tonight," should I calmly explain that I'm not really into gentrification? And then run like hell?

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Jason Rice, says:

::If someone comes up to me

Just cross that bridge when you come to it. Why worry needlessly.

Beyond that, then you can worry about unwanted gentrification.

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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realpower1, says:

Thank you DC for the data: It is obvious that many people chiming in on this debate have not experienced life in Boston, NYC, SF, LA, or even Austin before and after a smoking ban. I suspect 90% of the people smoking in a large club are posers anyway and the smoking ban will not change their life one bit. I also suspect at a bar like Illusions the inverse is true where 90% are serious smokers.
As a hardcore non-smoker I do feel some obligation to allow small neighborhood type bars more leeway in allowing smoking areas then a larger establishment. The fact of the matter is that smoking creates a negative externality for everyone in their environment. It is not a matter of personal rights when you are in a public space.

Anonymous

11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Pavel Lishin, says:

Heh, "smoking posers."

I guess I am one, since when I'm drunk and people offer me cigarettes, I take 'em.

And is it really a "public" space when it's privately owned, etc, etc? God I don't want to start this up again. I need a cigarette.

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Jason Rice, says:

A "Cesar Chavez" - c'mon Pavel, cave in.

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Travis Bush, says:

"It is obvious that many people chiming in on this debate have not experienced life in Boston, NYC, SF, LA, or even Austin before and after a smoking ban."

Did you fall off the short bus or something?

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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alexander troup, says:

I have been to these place's, while, as i say again, having realized this long but very intresting discussion on smoking, ...it is a fashion statement and a new kind of Probition, while today's rag has the news on the Cigar Club....arent we getting closer to the real thing...hide and play...until then.. A/T,.. Urban smoker.

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Clay213, says:

I guess I haven't experienced life in Boston..

I was only born there=/

Anonymous

11 months, 2 weeks ago
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alexander troup, says:

Boston is amazing, while it is also very big and very congested, and yet....Old 19th Century suburbs that have modern people living in them poor, or hanging on, unlike Phili,while the East and Northern areas are places where people love smoking...and then again a land of many relgious superstitions and rituals...for those who allow the life to be...Until then,A/T....Love Boston, missed the Tea Party.

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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realpower1, says:

Clay213: Congratulations on being born in Boston. Can you please share your infantile experiences of Boston prior to the smoking ban, and perhaps any that you may have after the ban took effect? Pavel: Private is what you have in your own home. Legal precedence was established on this point centuries ago. You were too lazy to Google any correlation between demographics and smoking before voicing your opinions at the start of this discussion so why stop there? The last word is yours. Please, continue to keep your inputs free of data or logical construction.

Anonymous

11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Travis Bush, says:

"Please, continue to keep your inputs free of data or logical construction."

You have already done that a couple of times. Education and financial status have absolutely no correlation with why people go to bars and nightclubs in the first place. The smoking ban MIGHT increase patronage, but for it to have any real meaning, it would have to be in the context of a much wider demographic. I'm not even sure how you could possibly prove that either.

BTW, the demographic that this article applies to already consists of a group that has a higher level of disposable income, which in my estimation dismisses your conjecture. And speaking of conjecture, you assumption that those commenting here haven't ever been to places like Austin, New York, and LA, pre or post smoking ban is laughable.

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Tracy Yost, says:

Lived in Cambridge for 2 years, was there when they passed the ban in Boston. Then everybody came to Cambridge and Somerville bars. Then they banned smoking in Cambridge. Then there were a lot of people standing outside the bars, smoking in 10-below and 2 feet of powder. Then we moved back to Texas. We were tired of being cold and broke.

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Pavel Lishin, says:

<i><strong>realpower1</strong>: Please, continue to keep your inputs free of data or logical construction. </i>

Man, you haven't even seen me posting random images yet! Besides, I was just trying to bait the Yosts. Sorry, inside joke, etc. Stick around for a few more months, you'll see them all repeat endlessly.

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Jason Rice, says:

And RP1 - don't get into a Google throwdown with our token mohawk unless you want him to divulge your real parent's names and prescription history.

It ain't pretty.

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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alexander troup, says:

Tracy, that is how I felt Boston was also, cold and broke for a lot of people...sad the cradle of the Amercian Liberty and you have to keep on trucking.....and smoking....to another landing strip of freedom...A/T, Got a cigar Sam..

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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jtmbls, says:

Travis - You clearly have not been to Uptown or even some places in Addison lately where for a small increase in fee, the valet will park your Mercedes or Porsche close to the front door so everyone can admire it and you as they enter and leave. Or maybe you have not been fortunate enough to be lectured by your date on the fine, hand molded fenders of the Aston Martin you just had to step over to get to the valet stand. Financial status has much to do with the Dallas bar scene. Education – not so much.

I would also like to congratulate clay on being infantile. Oh – Sorry – Did I read that wrong?

Anonymous

11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Scott Doyle, says:

Since I'm relatively sure there's little material left to constructively broaden the horizons of this discussion, I offer the following:

<img src="http://media.pegasusnews.com/img/photos/2008/12/12/doughman.jpg"> <br> <br> If this thread snowballs like every smoking ban convo preceding it, I'll do my best to bring you Michael's smiling face every 25th comment or so and hopefully lighten the mood.

Have a fantastic day, everyone!

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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jtmbls, says:

Nobody has been called a Nazi yet.

Anonymous

11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Jason Rice, says:

Or even a primate

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11 months, 2 weeks ago
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nicetyme, says:

I was living in Seattle when this issue was the topic du jour. There was great wailing and gnashing of teeth about how this would destroy every cocktail bar in existence...and believe me - there is no shortage of smokers in the NW. I have never smoked but have always associated with smokers. As such, I was very ambivalent towards the proposed ban...in fact, I was a little against - simply on the premise that I see less gov't intervention, in general, as a good thing. However, post-ban, I cannot emphasize what a wonderful difference it is...I would never NEVER go back to the way it was. Now, when I visit other cities which allow smoking indoors - it is a huge downer. Every drinking establishment is still full of people. AND you can walk in for 30 minutes, go home, and your clothes don't smell like they should be thrown away. Go Dallas!!! Ban and love it! You'll see.

Anonymous

10 months, 1 week ago
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