Tuesday, January 8, 2008
Dallas police propose to thumbprint those not carrying identification
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Dallas police are proposing to obtain thumbprints from people who are caught without identification. According to the DPD, people lying about their identity while receiving a citation is a growing problem.
Posted by Laura S.
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Comments
bobdon000 Anonymous
If they are proposing, then is it the Mayor, Council or City Manager who will make the final decision?
How about holding them in jail untill such time that their identification can be verified?
6 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Robert Kelly Verified
geez bobdon000, on what charge were you thinking? I imagine you have thought this through with that response.
6 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
bobdon000 Anonymous
I think it is common law that the police have the right to detain any person who cannot provide proof of identiy.
In a civil society, for it to function properly there is some minimum level of conduct that is necessary. I think being able to prove who you are is one of those minimum levels. It is not a denial of any of my civil liberties (to travel, associate, speak, or petition freely)to prove who I am.
6 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
It's an ultimate denial of your listed civil liberties if you're locked up in a cell simply b/c you didn't have ID on you. What are you supposed to do when you're swimming, man?!
And how do you propose we verify the identify of random people when they're locked in a cell, especially if they haven't been printed before? Is the next step training a pack of dogs to run around the city searching for an ID with prisoner's scent on it?
6 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
bobdon000 Anonymous
If your swimminig you might carry ID in a wallet and keep it in dry place nearby? Just a thought man.
6 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
Meh, when I'm on a jet ski I don't keep my wallet on me - could be far, far away from it.
And your thoughts on the second question?
6 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
bobdon000 Anonymous
I assume you didn't walk to the lake w/ your jet ski. No problem. Just keep it (ID) locked up in the nearest car/truck. So you can present it when asked.
They aren't random. They are people who the police thought couldn't appropriately prove who they were. Most police departments have in-place policies to hold these people as "John Does" until such time that they can present proof of person. This isn't any radical (vast right wing conspiracy) idea. It is common in most big city police departments. Most times these "random" people don't want to give their names because of outstanding warrants. What would you do? Release an known rapist back into the community because he wouldn't give his name to the police?
6 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
I realize this, Bob - you make it sound like anybody who can't immediately show proof of identification at any given time should be jailed.
We're not talking about people who refuse to give their name; we're talking about people who misrepresent themselves over nontrivial violations which result in a simple citation. Obviously if someone refuses to identify himself it raises suspicion. The proposition is a means to quickly clear a person's name that was used to mask another identity. You can't just presume someone who gives you a name and address is a rapist b/c he doesn't have ID to back it up.
The DMN article details that if you don't have ID, you put your print on the back of the citation. Sounds reasonable enough to me: "We don't file that thumbprint in any kind of database," Mesquite police Lt. Steve Callarman said. "The only time that thumbprint would ever be used, or compared, or even looked at, would be if a person shows up in court and says, 'That's not me.' "
6 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Robert Kelly Verified
"I think it is common law that the police have the right to detain any person who cannot provide proof of identiy."
I thought common law was english.
Again, is it against the law to not carry ID? You have me a little lost here. Where is your backup on this? What could the charge possibly be? I think it depends on the citation being issued as to the need to hold someone, not on whether they have ID or not. That could mean a lot of jaywalkers in the pokey.
6 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
DC Anonymous
Well, there are some possibilities here. We have experienced how this can be applied. On a trip between South Padre and Austin we were stopped (as everyone else was) by federal agents. Unable to tell the difference between asian girls and latino girls, and considering that a Texas driver's license does not count as proof of citizenship, we were available for deportation as potentially illegal immigrants.
True that the fourth amendment protects against unwarranted search, but that only applies to citizens, not illegal nor 'suspected' illegal immigrants. These initiatives so far only apply within 100 miles of the border.
In regards to the 'common law' consideration, this is the basis of a legal system that uses precedent as part of the make up of the process. Essentially all US, Canadian and English federal law incorporates this. As well, all states (except Louisiana do as well. Common law is part of the statute and non statute considerations.
If an individual in this country is under no suspicion for anything and does not feel like showing proof of citizenship, there should be no reason to detain them. However, suspicion is hardly objective.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/10/pol...
http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/pre...
6 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Peter Stawicki Verified
What if I was in a horrible industrial accident and my thumbs were chopped off and processed into something sold at Wally World. (Or maybe a bowl of Wendy's Chilli) Whatcha going to do now??
6 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
littlekinder Anonymous
Is Scott Doyle the only one that has read the referenced article? Has everyone missed the second (and last) sentence of this blurb? We are talking about someone who is being given a citation. Apparently, people who are being given a citation would prefer to be, oh.. someone else! That is the problem the DPD is experiencing, according to the report. So no one is really talking about pulling you over and hauling you to jail if you have no I.D. For that matter, they are not even talking about thumbprinting you if you have no I.D. They want to thumbprint people who have committed a violation, are receiving a citation (not being arrested) and have no I.D. They want to protect YOU from someone listing YOUR identity as their own after they have been issued a citation.
I can just see this whole thing running in reverse - citizens complain about false accusations and the DPD shrugs and says, well, tough, we have no way to know, there was no I.D. - then all the villagers get out the torches and rage about how government doesn't care about us and protecting us...
6 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
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