crowlogic Anonymous

If some nondescript chain development moves in, I say we should definitely revolt and burn the goddamn place to the ground. Are we going to sit idly by and let our entire society be replaced with the likes of chains and common-goods peddlers with no sense of individuality and character? Evolutionary theory(to hell with you evolution-deniers, your kind will be eradicated soon enough anyway) applies to corporations and venues... leave it up to the capitalists with no soul and no dream and we have are left with a bland/dying America. Btw, what is that piece of land going for these days, with the whole economy collapsing on itself?

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

chrisdanger Anonymous

Its a damn shame this building got bulldozed. Too bad we have people in this city who dont want to hold on to their history and would rather turn everything into a parking lot or another carbon-copy suburban box store.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Johnyalamo2000 Anonymous

I just really hope that the develpoer will build some ugly ass "3r's" type place that looks squared off and contains a brand new Starbucks in the bottom. In fact, I wish for the whole world to look like West Village and Disneyland.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

brettlandes Anonymous

When I first entered into this investment, it was my original intent to retain the Hard Rock and make a business successful within the context of keeping the building intact. However, I always knew it would be a challenge. Over a year later, and having spent over $250,000 to figure out a viable use for the building, it became apparent there were not tenants who were willing to make the building work without committing millions of dollars that would have dramatically altered the bulding. I had offers to sell the building to National developers, for a massive profit, but decided I wanted to build something that I would be proud to see every day I drive by the site. I will make far less money pursuing the ideas we are designing, than selling the property. Our commitment is to create a vibrant urban community, that will incorporate the elements necessary to make people want to live, socialize and spend time in this great community. While we lament the loss of this building, the truth is that it has been a bar and nightclub for a very long time. The structure did not appeal to nearly 5o potential tenants with whom we worked for over a year. In the end, we committed to make the site something uptown and in particular residents within close proximity, would be proud to call their own. We only ask that the ardent fans of Uptown be patient and let us present a plan you will be proud of. In fact there are many great plans behind the scenes for this small area of Uptown that will demonstrate the love and devotion many investors have for this community. I office in Uptown and have to live and breath it every day. Trust me...I want this to be a place I can walk out every day and be proud to say I work here.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Billusa99 Anonymous

Confucius say, sex is like the army, the closer you are to discharge, the better you feel.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

brettlandes Anonymous

Mike,

The last straw was when we had a national chain, who was the closest we had on any deal for the last year, indicate they would move forward but require $2 million for additional improvements. Those improvements would incorporate a completely different facade, and change the entire scope of the architecture of the building. Further the rent they proposed after our infusion of capital would give us a yield of less than 3%.

I spoke to Angela nearly 9 months ago, after I first bought the building. I told her then my intent was to keep the building intact. However, we were also honest in telling her and the city that if the property were designated a historical landmark, we would not purchase the property. This was because of exactly what is happening now. We simply could not risk being in a position of sitting on an obsolete asset. As a member of the Uptown community, and taking great pride in the work we have done thus far to revitalize Uptown, I can assure you that we are going to continue in that effort moving forward. I have partnered with some of the most respected and revered businessmen in Dallas to create a spectacular development. Within that development we intend to honor the old church and the history behind the 100 years of its existence. More importantly we are going to create an atmosphere that will promote the vibrant attitude and enthusiasm epitomized by the young and successful residents of Uptown.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

bmslaw Anonymous

Oh, yeah. I can just see Angela Hunt and the entire McKinney Avenue business, residential, and cultural constituency supporting a homeless shelter at the Hard Rock. NIMBY.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

WhitneyTM Anonymous

It's difficult and sad to look at those photos. Kudos to Mr. Dorn for recording such things.

Good news for the haters - Starbucks is in a bit of trouble. Going forward, they will open fewer new stores and even close some...

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/17/news/...

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

lakewooder Anonymous

I feel sorry for people who cannot put our beloved city over making a dollar. I respect property rights but I also cherish the history of my hometown. A solution could have been found. I shall be boycotting whatever you do, just as I boycott Dr Pepper (very difficult), anything associated with Jerry Jones and the Fiesta strip center which took down the Dahl-designed Sears Roebuck on Ross. I shall also loudly oppose anything you try to get from our city council in the way of variances or zoning changes.

You have your rights and I have the right to do this - I hope others will join me.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

johnmckee Anonymous

"Landes is promising not to tear down the building. That's what he told the
Landmark Commission on Monday, where the fate of the 97-year-old former McKinney Avenue Baptist Church was to be decided, till it was pushed back to the April 2 meeting. Landes' broker, Uptown and downtown real-estate man Jack Gosnell, told the commission Landes would leave it standing if the city would just back off. " -Dallas Observer

"Landes should be able to do whatever he wants with the building, which he has promised not to raze. " - Dallas Observer

"My instructions have been to lease the existing building," he says. "We were not interested in flipping the real estate, we were not interested in talking to developers about developing the site out." - Dallas Observer

Gosnell says they have nothing to worry about, that his client will keep the building standing. - Dallas Observer

Mr Landes, did you and your representatives make those and similar statements or not? Are they the truth?

Are you calling the media and Ms. Hunt liars? The fact is someone is not telling the truth here, Either you told the community, the media and Ms. Hunt that you would not tear this structure down and then did or everyone else is lying.

Who is not telling the truth?

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

lakewooder Anonymous

SMU couldn't afford to keep up the DeGolyer estate but donated it to the city of Dallas. Many altruists, philanthropists and men of good deeds do such things.

Landes is none of those things.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

chasd00 Anonymous

"Maybe they're both telling the truth. Maybe he intended to save the building at the time the comments were made, but later on realized that it was financially unfeasible." - Pavel Lishin

bingo.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

johnmckee Anonymous

Maybe they're both telling the truth. Maybe he intended to save the building at the time the comments were made, but later on realized that it was financially unfeasible.

It's like when you tell your kid, "Sure you can be President when you grow up," and then a decade later, sit him down and explain that you really can't afford to send him to Yale, and it might be a good idea for him to stop spending so much money on stereo equipment and maybe get a job to pay for community college in the fall. -Pavel Lishin

Did he say he was going to try really hard and save it? Did he say he was going to save it if it was financially feasible?

What Ms. Hunt and the media is saying is that he flat out said he would keep the structure. Had that promise not been made I think you would have seen a lot more support from the community for a historic designation and a much greater chance for it receiving one.

I am simply asking him, is what the media and Ms. Hunt saying inaccurate, did he not promise that he would not tear down the building. Is the quote ""Landes is promising not to tear down the building. That's what he told the Landmark Commission on Monday" inaccurate or did he make that promise to the Landmark Commission, Ms. Hunt and the community and then break it?

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

SkyHigh Anonymous

Interesting comments. Did anyone in this group feel strong enough about the building to actually propose something? Maybe put your money where your mouth is?

Grow up - people buy and sell all the time, this includes old buildings.

If you were really serious maybe you should have stepped up with some cash.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

2bits Anonymous

People love getting on the bandwagon don't they. I miss the Bronco Bowl too and countless other cubs no one has ever heard of, and weren't able to "preserve" including this one too.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

brettlandes Anonymous

...and this will be the last word on this subject.

When the issue of keeping the building a historic landmark was presented to the landmark commission, I was asked point blank at that meeting (which was not attended by Angela Hunt) whether I would buy the building if they voted to designate the building historic. I emphatically said NO. I would not buy it, nor would any other investor. However, I did say I would try to salvage the building and find a tenant. Indeed we spent a year and a lot of money looking for tenants. We spoke to every steak house in America. We worked with caterers, food establishments, non-profit groups, book stores, etc. The only potential tenant we found was a topless club operator who wanted to lease the space under the condition he was successful in obtaining a special use permit to stay open until 4AM and promote rave dances. I said no to that idea. That is exactly what I told Angela and the citizens of Uptown at a meeting last winter, when I first heard the concept of designating the building a historic landmark. I said I wanted to keep the building and make it something special. I was caught off guard at that first meeting, and was asked to stand and address the gathering. I said at that time, my desire is to find a great use for the building. I was also very clear to the landmark commission, and to anyone who asked me, that without the right to develop the property, I would not buy it. That is on the record. I have tried and spent $250,000 to make something work there. But the design of the building, the age and the overall stigma as the Hard Rock rendered it impossible. I office in Uptown, and I want to create an environment that will encourage a lifestyle whereby residents can live, eat and socialize is a special area of Dallas they will call home and be proud. The businessmen associated with me, and with this project understand the work we have devoted to making this location special. It is probably one of the most important corners in Dallas. And we intend to treat it as such. It is going to take time to finalize the design, but we will do something very good for Uptown.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

brettlandes Anonymous

...scott you are correct...i meant to say MY last word. good luck to you...i have enough bretts for now...thanks though.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Billusa99 Anonymous

Andrew... Good points, but have you ever been in the room with commercial investor/developer types? Community largess is not really in their vocabularies. In the time that Landes claims to have spent $250k (which I doubt was hard cash, most likely "time value"), the credit markets have tanked and the commercial property markets are on life support. Tearing this thing down now means he can start now -- not in the middle of a possible recession when it would be even harder.

And Brett, you really are wearing out the "I office in Uptown and care for the area" stuff. It's beginning to sound very disingenuous. Best you just say that you are building a 15 story building, the HR is gone, and move on. You're now saddled with a "Mission Accomplished" banner and no amount of 'splainin' is going to change that now.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

chasd00 Anonymous

"Tearing this thing down now means he can start now -- not in the middle of a possible recession when it would be even harder."

that's a good point. I wonder what they hope to do with the on-going credit crisis and the bursting of the housing bubble? A highrise of $500K condos would be a giant money hole right now.

My guess is nothing is going to go there until at least 6 months after the presidential election. Maybe the economy will have turned around be then and the housing and credit markets will have recovered. I don't see any large scale mixed use or residential development being profitable until then.

Disclaimer: I'm no real estate buff or financial analyst so i could be totally wrong.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

johnmckee Anonymous

Mr Landes, I gave you the chance to explain how Ms. Hunt, The Dallas Observer and myself all misunderstood what you were saying when you made those statements. You have chosen not to address that so I feel my only option is to believe them as truth. Unless you want to explain otherwise I have no other option than to believe that you lied to me, Ms. Hunt and the media. Your word is worth nothing anymore to me and I suspect Ms. Hunt and many other people as well.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

SkyHigh Anonymous

Just to be clear - there was no community effort to raise money and save this building? Nobody tried to secure some capital and make a deal with the Developer?

Then ... shut up. Enough, already. A small group of preservation "advocates" without any cash is very annoying. Get some money.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

ericthegardener Anonymous

There is a great, even-handed article by Norm Alston about the issues involved with historic preservation over at Backtalk East Dallas.

http://backtalkeastdallas.typepad.com...

I'd say that the article is on the side of the angels overall but is also fair to the developers. Ought to be required reading for developers.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

EdWeirdness Anonymous

brettlandes:

Let me get this straight? You bought the HR with no particular need or plan? Rather than look elsewhere for a building suitable for no particular need or plan, you wrangled having the HR deregistered as historical? Why?

If this reasoning passes for how "bidness" is supposed to work in Dallas, it explains so much about the increasing "suck" factor we're experiencing.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

EdWeirdness Anonymous

I know, let's all just agree to never, ever, visit the site of the former HR, regardless of what gets built on the site. Certainly Mr. Landes and his investors and potential residents will realize the importance of any corner in Dallas is limited to the connection that Dallas residents feel and attribute to that corner. That anyone feels any corner, particularly after being razed, has any inate significance seems questionable to say the least. This probably explains why a lot of Texans, given a choice, would choose the suburbs rather than downtown. I find myself increasingly questioning the wisdom of promoting the "Friends" theme park residential lifestyle in a city where the family courts and the police department and jails are it's biggest employers. Does the crazy guy still "rant" in front of the McDonald's on Commerce street?

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

EdWeirdness Anonymous

The City of Dallas isn't doing its part to preserve these buildings either. Designating them as historical on constrains potential buyers interest, it fails to incentivize such buyers to invest and innovate when they renovate. The City could provide a property tax abatement, or better yet, make preserving historical buildings a "property tax free endeavor" so long as the building use remains "open to the public" commercial and it isn't converted to residential.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

dcr Anonymous

A few questions: 1. How far is the nearest church to this former church/store/bar? Maybe Uptown residents really could have used a church there. 2. If a building is so historically important, why don't preservation-minded folks spend more time patronizing the business within? Apparently they didn't, in the case of the HR. 3. 100 years from now, will people decry the destruction of "Historic West Village"?

If people want junk, junk is what they get, same as in TV programming. You want history? Move to Boston, Chicago, SFO, Terlingua. Don't blame the developer. If it was economically feasible, he would have kept the building.

I finally stopped complaining about the long, hot summers here. I accepted the fact that I live in Dallas, not Crested Butte.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

FoodCzar Anonymous

What a great discussion, guys! Thanks! Tingthing: In my humble opinion, one of your postings contained the greatest wisdom, and I bet most people skirted right over it! Guys, please, do yourselves a favor and go back and read the Nothing is Permanent wisdom, which appears to be a Brave Combo song. More profound thought about this subject at hand than in all the other postings combined; again, in my opinion. In that spirit I say: I imagine the issue will sort itself out in time; it usually does.

6 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )