Thursday, July 10, 2008
Man shoots suspected copper thief in Garland
GARLAND — The son of a business owner at Bargain Town in Garland shot a suspected copper thief and killed him.
The shooting happened shortly before 1:20 a.m. at Bargain Town Variety & Furniture store in the 5700 block of Broadway Boulevard. The son, 25, was guarding the roof after the store had been vandalized by copper thieves. A man climbed on the roof and the son shot at him. He climbed back down and collapsed. Bargain Town had been hit repeatedly by copper thieves.
Posted by T.G.
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AnnMarie Wilson, says:
The Garland citizens forum has a comment from someone about this and are appalled.
My thoughts: you voted to allow people to 'defend their property' with guns, even without fear for their lives etc.
What did you THINK was going to happen?
Verified
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Tracy Yost, says:
I think the right thing happened, and should happen more often.
Verified
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
pabloindallas, says:
If you think that what happened was a result of some NEW law that was passed, think again. It has been on the books for years (check one of your OLD copies of Vernon's Criminal Statutes) that the use of deadly force is acceptable if the victim reasonably believes that he has no chance of recovering his property if the thief gets away. Furthermore (and this will really surprise you), the use of deadly force is acceptable against vandals if the act occurs at NIGHT. Thus,the shooter in this deal had a 2-way CYA.
If I remember correctly, one can also use deadly force at night to protect against vandalism of the property of others.
OK, now somebody go check a fresh Vernon's and bring me up to speed.
Anonymous
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
jtmbls, says:
Nice shot! Better think twice before you show up with ill intentions anywhere uninvited!
Anonymous
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Jason Rice, says:
C'mon guys.
This innocent fella is out for a stroll along the only uncluttered area of Garland, namely uninhabited rooftops, and runs into this madman with a gun hiding out - heaven knows why - in an otherwise peaceful and pastoral, albeit tarred and graveled, oasis.
Ok, I can't keep this up. You're right guys. Ya know I TRY to be liberal, I really really do. Sorry, move along, this isn't the candlelight vigil you're looking for.
Verified
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Rick Yost, says:
So is it easier for a crook today to do his thing, because he feels that John Q. Public won't take matters into his own hands, and will opt to wait for the cops?
Does knowing this give the guy the incentive to be more daring betting on the authorities to be slow and lumbering. More to the point...if enough John Q.s shoot enough crooks, will the crime problem slow down?
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Clay213, says:
I doubt the convention of homeless copper thieves is going to put this on their next meeting agenda
Anonymous
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
AnnMarie Wilson, says:
"More to the point...if enough John Q.s shoot enough crooks, will the crime problem slow down? "
No it will not. The only thing that will happen is more shootings, more violence. The mob mentality will kick in too...
Violence doesn't stop violence. Never has, never will.
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Jason Rice, says:
Yeah, AnnMarie, I gotta side with you. After an initial short term drop in "dumb crook" population, I think you'd just see better armed dumb crooks with the added bonus of more untrained John Q's with more firepower than they can handle -- or maintain secure possession of...leading to better armed dumb crooks....
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Verified
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Scott Doyle, says:
Nuclear winter will put a stop to violence!
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Pavel Lishin, says:
"Violence doesn't stop violence."
True, but stealing copper isn't a violent crime. I sympathize for the alleged copper thief - I've climbed on rooftops just to explore and look around (though I don't do it at night, and not in the middle of a copper theft epidemic) - but, well, if you shoot all the copper thieves, there won't be anyone left to thieve copper.
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
AnnMarie Wilson, says:
I never said stealing copper was a violent crime.
What I did say was violence doesn't stop violence. When you have a state pass a law that in essence says: "Just shoot - don't worry about it being justified", this is what you get.
And I'm afraid this is just the tip of the iceberg; these events are only going to become much more common. Not only will this state have the designation as putting more people to death then all other states put together, but we'll also be known for vigilante style justice.
So much for civilize behavior and the advancement of the species.
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Robert Kelly, says:
violence did stop violence in this case. I don't worry about the aggregate, that will take care of itself. I worry about me. So stay out of my house, and away from my a/c
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Dunkel, says:
Never good news when someone gets killed, but they were right in defending the property from thieves. It just came with a bad ending.
Anonymous
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Tracy Yost, says:
I don't think the state said "don't worry about it being justified" - I think they said "it IS justfied if you are protecting your property".
Is it sad that there is so much hatred and disregard for our fellow man in our society? sure. That's a whole different problem.
Verified
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Scott Doyle, says:
You're definitely in the wrong state if you feel force isn't a worthwhile endeavor when defending your life and property.
Verified
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
AnnMarie Wilson, says:
I'm in the wrong state because I don't believe in violence, bigotry, fanatical religion, guns, non-evolution teaching, vouchers; because I support alternative energy, a clean environment, peace, affordable education for all, medical care for all, helping people, freedom from religious persecution.
See what I believe in- and practice is peace, helping others, trying to enlighten people to the fact that there are alternatives to violence (guns) and extremism.
But I have to admit, leaving has crossed my mind more then once in the past few years (financial constraints have prevent dedicated looking). I've been here almost 23 years now - and seeing what's happened to this state is extremely depressing.
Verified
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Jason Rice, says:
AnnMarie - don't let Scott scare you. There's always the People's Republic of Austin just a half day's ride south.
But, yeah, once packed, how much further is Canada, really?
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Clay213, says:
Shooting someone to death over an air conditioner seems shameful to me. Was it worth it?
Stealing copper seems shameful to me. Certainly not worth it.
Dallas has one of the highest crime rates in the country-- and yet people still think shooting anyone who looks at you funny is going to make that go away?
And then you hear all this talk about god and church and living a christian life..
Whatever.
Anonymous
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Pavel Lishin, says:
AnnMarie - how much do you disbelieve in violence? If I came into your house and started helping myself to all your stuff, would you whack me with a bat or lecture me as to the benefits of a non-violent society?
I feel you give up some inalienable rights - such as the right to keep breathing - when you come to my place and decide to deny me my inalienable rights - like the right to own some nice stuff that I worked hard to obtain.
Obviously a non-violent solution would be best. But if I have a gun and someone's walking away with my TV, I'm not going to offer them some tea.
Verified
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Jason Rice, says:
Does anybody know if there's counseling available for the poor kid that shot the guy? I can't imagine sleeping again for a couple of years with that floating in your subconscious.
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Scott Doyle, says:
Depends on the kid. If he's the kinda guy who camps out on a roof with a loaded gun in anticipation of a copper thief, he probably taped it and sent it to his grammie.
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
jtmbls, says:
This makes me very uncomfortable to say, but I agree 100% with Pavel.
And I do believe that it would make a difference for some two-bit thug to know that what he’s doing has far greater consequences than a slap on the wrist and a badge of honor to his buddies.
Anonymous
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
AnnMarie Wilson, says:
Here you go - the comment at 9:32 AM today, 7/14 - summarizes perfectly everything I hate about guns, violence and the mentality it showcases.
http://www.garlandcitizenforum.org/fo...
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
jtmbls, says:
Why does that particular post bother you? It seems that you would only need to worry about that guy if you were planning on breaking into his house...
Anonymous
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Pavel Lishin, says:
AnnMarie, I agree with you - that guy is a loon.
<i>"there is no such thing as a non-violent criminal, only a criminal who has not needed to defend his criminal actions to date."</i> <-- biggest load of crap I've ever heard. People like this is why pot smokers end up doing 20+ year terms in prison.
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
AnnMarie Wilson, says:
People like this scare me half to death!
Think about it... you're walking down the street and there's a loud bang. Your back is to this guy - he thinks you did something!
What about the other post by the preacher/doctor? Use the most destructive bullets - aim to kill? This by someone this is suppose to not only save 'souls' but swore to the Hippocratic Oath.
What's wrong with this picture?
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Rick Yost, says:
It's tough in this world we were all born into to mentally manage the hypocrisy of society- just one of the many things that was already here when we came on the scene.
Most of us sane folks would never want to kill another human being. However, we weren't asked before we were born- what kind of world we'd prefer.
So here we are. Everybody we think shouldn't have a gun- has a gun! And there are no simple solutions.
There is something more special and more valuable to us than a life...our things.
And we will use all force necessary to keep them.
It would be great if humans could evolve into more intelligent, sensitive, and lovable beings. And after countless generations of non-violent activists pushing for change it might be possible.
However, the first casualties of a cause are often those on the front line.
I'm not a martyr for change- I guess I'm just not that brave. Sorry.
I've never shot anyone, I'm sure it's a traumatic thing, (and no doubt a real drag for whomever you shoot) but we're all of us (criminals and honest citizens alike) bound by the same laws. The guy knew what he was doing was potentially deadly.
If you purposefully do something stupid, bad things could happen.
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Scott Miller, says:
Religion and guns apparently just go together in this country:
http://www.koco.com/news/16860079/det...
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
rhia, says:
Officers per 1,000 residents in Garland: 1.52 - or - roughly one officer for every 662 people (depending on which census you find and use.) Of course, not every officer is always on duty (they have to sleep sometimes, too) and not every officer is on the street during their whole shift what with bringing people in for booking, etc. etc. (doing the other part of their job, so it goes) so it's not like every officer only has to look over a flock of 662 sheep during his shift.
Add to that the fact that copper stealing has become a rather lucrative business for many less scrupulous people - and a very expensive loss to their victims. It's not just the loss of the copper, it's the damage done to the units and the increase in insurance, plus the possible loss of revenue while waiting for repairs. In June alone, Polytechnic High School's air-conditioning units were stripped of copper, causing $132,000 in damage.
The roof where the questionable confrontation occurred was that of a business that had already been hit before. Insurance may cover the damage, but then you can pretty much bet your sweet bippy that the rates will increase to compensate. Small businesses can rarely easily absorb large uncalled for necessary expenses. And yes, I would consider having to replace my AC unit more than once in a single year due to some selfish thieving ninny an UNcalled for necessary expense - especially during high summer in Texas.
Should the police camp an officer on each private citizen's roof that has a vulnerable AC unit? Of course not. And, ah, guess what? It's not their job, anyway. Would the police have gotten there in time to catch the copper thief in the act? Well, the track record so far against them isn't that successful, even with live-time call-ins.
Did Mr. Sheu's son aim specifically to kill? Does anyone but he really know? Did he feel threatened by someone sneaking up on a roof they had no business being on? (I would.) It's not too far a leap to go from someone wishing to do harm to your livelihood to someone who may quite be willing to do harm to yourself. The police don't seem to have an issue with how the incident happened and I'd guess that they probably have a slightly better idea of the full circumstances than we do. Until more comes out, all the chest pounding is so much speculation.
Considering how hard it is for many small businesses to keep their nose above water in this economy, and how much of their entire life savings most small business owners have tied up in their company, saying that the family's livelihood may very well have been threatened by another loss and insurance hit is not too hard to imagine.
The guy didn't go out cruising the streets looking for suspicious looking people to randomly shoot at. He sat, on the roof of his father's business, defending his father's property. NO ONE BUT HE knows what he was thinking, how he felt when someone DID show up, what made him pull the trigger, and more importantly, HOW HE FEELS NOW that he has taken another human's life. Not something most non-hardened criminals find easy to sleep with.
Personally, I'm just not all that torn up over the selfish thief (who, by his actions, obviously didn't care about any consequences to the hard working people relying on that business for their daily bread) getting shot. I am, however, saddened that he died from the wound and greatly saddened that Mr. Sheu's son will have to live with this horrific incident for the rest of his life.
Anonymous
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Rick Yost, says:
Speaking as a small business owner, thank you rhia.
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1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
rhia, says:
NP, Rick.
Although I most likely should have thrown "alleged" in there a couple of times and dropped "son" off of Mr Sheu in a couple places, (then again, I'm not a reporter and am simply stating my opinion,) but.... the gist remains. I know far too many peace officers, and small business owners, to have let this go un-responded to. The "news" seems to deal more with sound bytes and ratings and less with actualities every day. Sigh.
The dogs bark, yet the caravan passes on.
Anonymous
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
BobS, says:
Kinda comes down to the old saying, "If your'e looking for trouble, it'll find you." The kid with the gun is just lucky he's the first one in line on this. A year from now the copper thieves may know they have to come armed.
Dang, what a mess things are in.
Anonymous
1 year, 4 months agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal