bobdon000 Anonymous

The starting salary for DISD teachers is about $46,000 for a 185-day teaching schedule. Annualizing this compensation to a full year results in a first year teacher getting paid $64,600. Add in the un-paralled healthcare and pension benefits and teaching becomes an exceptionally well paid job. The claim that teachers are underpaid is ridicoulas and not supported by the facts.

Real professionals do not work 183 days a year. Teachers are overpaid for their actual time. If teachers want to be compensated like true professionals then the NEA should be lobbying for 12-month classroom schedules.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Spoken like someone who's clearly never taught or has any idea what it takes to teach.

If there were so many teachers making so much money then why on earth is there so much turnover in the teaching profession?

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

bobdon000 Anonymous

I know enough about math to understand that I work very hard for to pay my school taxes.

But of course, as a wanna-be politician, McCelland would rather resort to ad hominons than address the problems. Your poltical skills are wanting.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

bobdon000 Anonymous

Typical blowhart blogging, "raggin on teachers does not know one and has only reactionary la la land bar talk to offer in lieu of reality based offering..." The blogger doesn't know who I know or don't know.

The facts are the facts: the annualized pay of a starting DISD teacher equates to $64,600 per year plus an un-parrelled benefits package.

Every professional I know (doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.) work overtime and spend some amount of their personal funds on job and career stuff, so teachers are in no special category with respect to that issue.

Talk about bar gab.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

DC Anonymous

You want some tax dollar outrage? How about Tom's asian massage trip, Dave's sushi and sailing tour and your now proud ownership in the future city of Dallas Marriot?

Talk about your screwed up priorities.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

bobdon000 Anonymous

Glad you "lolled" (to move, stand, or recline in an indolent or relaxed manner??) Scott, whatever that means, and I think your duck is "cute."

The teaching profession actually has one of the lowest turn-over (you wrote turnaround but I am sure you meant turn-over)rates, compared to other similarly paid sectors.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Kay Anonymous

I love it when the grown-ups actually get to talk on this forum!

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

bobdon000 Anonymous

Ms. Alexander is to blame, she was my (high school) typing teacher.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jtmbls Anonymous

Duck? I don't see a duck. I see half of some furry little critter. He looks mad but he is very cute.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

bobdonotknow....You really don't even have a clue what you are talking about. If you'd actually visit DISD you'd know first year teachers only make 43.5k. Secondly, teachers usually only get 6 to 8 weeks off in the summer because of teacher workshops and other training. not three months. Just cause the kiddos are at home drinkin up all of your kool-aid doesn't mean teachers aren't working.

Third, what planet are you from where DISD benefits are deemed "un-parralled"? If by "un-parralled" you mean pretty crappy. Do you even know any teachers in DISD? Do you know how their lousy medical benefits work and how little they cover? Do you know their pension is inferior to most of the private 401k's we have access to?

Worst of all, the sheer fact that you don't even consider teachers (who are generally required to have 4 year degrees and certifications) to be "real professionals" is insulting to the point be being "un-parralled" in its ignorance.

Further, to say teachers have one of the lowest turnovers compared to the private sector is to just ignore the facts.

Here they are. Read them for yourself.

http://www.nctaf.org/documents/charts...

When you combine all of the that with the pressure to get kids to learn in an environment those kids don't even want to be in with the school bureaucracy and parents who have a negative and disrespectful attitude towards them it's little wonder that half of all first year teachers quit teaching after 5 years.

Teachers need to be paid like the professionals they are, not treated like road by wannabe desk jockeys like yourself.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

I guess if DISD teachers are overpaid for the work they do then why isn't bobdontno a teacher? Seems like an easy enough gig, right? What, make 64k for only working 185 days? It's like rainbows and unicorns! Add me to the waiting list of people begging to teach for DISD!

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

bobdon000 Anonymous

thanks for posting the link to the NCTAF study. That study actually supports my contention that the solution is for the teachers union(NEA) to pursue a full-year school term agenda. That would put them on equal footing with professional employment and be able to address the turn-over issue.

The NCTAF study results specifically indicate that a significant part of the turnover rate is due to teachers who leave the profession to seek full-time employment opportuntities outside teaching. I.E. they realize they are suffering financially by the current system.

Going to a full year calendar would be a good thing for teachers (it would increase their annual earings) and for tax payers who would be making greater use of their brick and motar facilites. I.E. tax payers could provide more education with lower brick and motar expenses.

And there is no need for name calling xdavidswattsx.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Anonymous

The latest Census stats show that the average per capita income in the city of Dallas is a little over $22,000. First year teachers nearly double that number with fewer work days than most wage earners.

Teaching may be a tough job. But teachers are neither worked so hard nor paid so little that I feel any particular pity for them, as opposed to the larger part of the working population that puts in longer hours, more days, often with back-breaking labor, for substantially less money and few, if any, benefits.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

$22,000? Wrong. Not even close. Back that up. I know you can't.

People who are doing back backbreaking labor usually don't have 4 year degrees with certification so hardly an apples to apples comparison.

And bobdontknow....I haven't called you squat. You'd know it if I did. Anyone who thinks teachers are overpaid isn't even worth calling names.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

bobdon000 Anonymous

Xdavidswattsx writes: "what planet are you from where DISD benefits are deemed "un-parralled"? If by "un-parralled" you mean pretty crappy. Do you even know any teachers in DISD? Do you know how their lousy medical benefits work and how little they cover? Do you know their pension is inferior to most of the private 401k's we have access to?"

If you want parity with the private sector, then lobby for a 12-month work schedule, like most working Americans.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Scott, let me save you some time. As recently as 2006, according to the US Dept of Commerce, Dallas County had a per capita income of 43.5k.

http://www.bea.gov/bea/regional/reis/...

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

How can I lobby for parity when teachers are so grossly overpaid for their qualifications and workload?

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

bobdon000 Anonymous

Thank you scott, you identify another societal benefit of the 12-month school term - day care.

Think of all the money that working families have to spend on day care during the 75 days that teachers have off during the summer. Going to a full year school term would help out many single moms and ohters struggling to make ends meet.

Btw, who is Bucky, who is Get Fuzzy, and what is an avatar?

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

bobdon000 Anonymous

The NEA arguement:

• We don't want to work a 12-month school term, like most working Americans.

• But we want to get paid a salary and benefits package which is signficantly more lucrative than what most working Americans are paid.

• We don't want to be held accountable for under performing results, but we want merit pay for over performance.

• And don't dare question or criticise us or our agenda because we will smear, name call, or generally ridicule you into submission of our agenda.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Anonymous

xdavidwattsx,

First, I said the city of Dallas, not Dallas County.

Second, I said "the latest Census stats," not statistics from the Bureau of Economic Analysis. You can find the stats I cited here: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/stat... .

Third, even if we use your county statistics that pick up some hugely affluent suburbs, what's your point? That a first-year teacher makes better money for substantially fewer days of work than most of the workers in Dallas County? Because that sounds a lot like the point I was trying to make.

I don't feel sorry for anyone who is in the top half of wage earners (from day 1 of their career, in a major city in one of the most affluent countries in the world), gets summers off, and works in an air-conditioned building. If you do, more power to you. But as long as there are workers who struggle to make ends meet, have no medical insurance, no retirement plans, hazardous work conditions, etc., I'll probably remain indifferent to the (often sanctimonious) pleas and demands of school teachers.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

scott -

Your stats were from 2000. Mine were from 2006. Which do you think were more relevant? I'll give you a hint. Not yours.

I love that you've got some sanctimonious individuals who think teachers have it so good yet none of them would come within 200 miles of teaching. It's not like they aren't looking for teachers to fill jobs.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Kay Anonymous

Gotta love Mark Twain!

I think the "dumbing down of America" is being proven on forum after forum...but let's not stop at this level. Let's dis teachers that are left, do away with TIG benefits, take away all the creative methods and go strictly "by the one-size-fits-all book". It certainly should no longer be fun to either teach or learn...Besides learning just leads to all sorts of complications. Simply recite after me, "Four legs good, two legs better."

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Anonymous

Jason,

The per capita stats I cited are, indeed, an average (or mean), not a median. http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta... . Learn to read, before lecturing me on arithmetic.

I agree that people deserve the quality of services for which they're willing to pay. Thank God for private schools.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Kay Anonymous

Of course, "going to school" doesn't always give one common sense. We don't know if or where this guy went to school, but common sense is certainly lacking -- all over the MetroPlex:

http://www.nbc5i.com/newsbycounty/166...

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Anonymous

Jason,

You continue to miss my point. I'll repeat it: "...teachers are neither worked so hard nor paid so little that I feel any particular pity for them, as opposed to the larger part of the working population that puts in longer hours, more days, often with back-breaking labor, for substantially less money and few, if any, benefits."

There are two things you can disagree with there. First, my characterization of DISD teachers as having solid middle class jobs. Second, my moral judgment that the struggle of truly poor people in our community (yes, even the "ditch diggers" that you sneer at) is a more pressing problem than a segment of middle class workers (one of many, I can assure you) who feel they should be a little higher in the middle class. So where, exactly, do you think I'm wrong?

Scott (Doyle),

There's nothing unreasonable about teachers getting upset over pay cuts or even claiming that they're paid too little. There's nothing unreasonable about doctors, lawyers, or corporate CEOs claiming that they're paid too little. All I said is that I don't feel any particular pity for them, since--in the scheme of things--they're doing quite well for themselves.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

scott (anonymous):

Again, you and bobdontno seem to really think teachers are either overpaid or are doing really well for the little amount of work they supposedly do.

I ask again, why don't you teach? They are begging for teachers to come take these super comfy jobs with these amazing benefits you speak of.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jballardford Anonymous

Oh, my. I'm a teacher. I teach for Dallas. I wish everyone who has an opinion about teachers and public education would spend one year teaching in a DISD classroom. All of this posturing might collapse beneath the realization that no amount of money truly compensates any professional. I had very different views about teaching before I became a teacher.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Kay Anonymous

While the word "sage" is particularly apt, Jason, the saying goes: "You have the patience of a Saint!"!!!

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

littlekinder Anonymous

What no one has really pointed out is that raising teachers' salaries would make the field MORE competitive, and draw more competitive candidates.

I know the issue at hand is not raises, but for years I have wondered what would happen if suddenly you could make six figures teaching high school. Private sector individuals (that are truly outstanding in their field) might readily come forth. Lots of people who could teach - and teach well - do not because of the pay (a point to remember for those touting the great deal teachers have going for them).

And by the way, it does not matter what ditch diggers make. They do NOT influence the next generation of Dallas residents in the way teachers do. They are supporting their families, and that is good. But they are not shaping the community's future.

I am all for merit pay. It doesn't matter to me if someone has taught for xxxx years but isn't producing kids that have truly learned. However, that is hard to measure.

I am a certified teacher, and I chose another path (and additional college degree, at my expense) because of the appalling apathy and incompetence I saw in my fellow teachers. You get what you pay for in every area of life. Why are we still looking for the free lunch? Pony up some bucks and see who shows up for interviews!

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Kay Anonymous

jballardford,

"I wish everyone who has an opinion about teachers and public education would spend one year teaching in a DISD classroom... I had very different views about teaching before I became a teacher."

I couldn't agree more! I've always thought it would be a good idea that Class 101 'working in various jobs on the other-side-of-the-counter' (desk, in this case) be required for high school graduation.

W-a-y back in my school-days there actually was a program called "Vocational Education" tho it was not required. I doubt it is still around...

IMO Experience IS the trump card. Without it, a player can wind up looking the fool in a show-down.

"Walk a mile in my shoes..."

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Kay Anonymous

Such is the thinking of a teacher ... you don't give up easily, no matter what the odds.

Kinda makes a point for the entire thread I'd say. (For those that need translation -- Can you see why teachers EARN whatever they get paid and deserve more?)

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Scott Anonymous

Jason,

We're verging on the surreal. You're "not budging"? Furthering "my cause"? I am not trying to persuade you of anything. I don't have a cause. I simply stated that teaching in the DISD is a middle-class gig (which you don't dispute) and, because of that, I care less about their cries of "injustice" than I do those of workers who are truly suffering (which--since it relates to my subjective reaction--you're really not in a position to dispute). Yet you continue to swat at some sort of straw man. Whatever. Have fun with it.

David,

Why don't I teach? Primarily, because it would bore me out of my skull.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

littlekinder Anonymous

Scott, your comments seem awfully dogmatic unless you are/were a teacher or a "suffering" blue collar worker.

Teachers have very little chance for upward mobility compared to most any type of job or career. Start as a ditch digger - end up owning your own construction company... yeah, it doesn't happen often, but it can and that's why it's a cliche/the American Dream. Teachers aren't really going anywhere but back into the same classroom year after year. Since we need experienced teachers, and they can't get "promoted" in any true sense of the word, we need to make this a worthwhile position to hold.

What do you mean by "a middle class gig"? I have always considered that terminology to be economic, meaning it is middle class based upon what is earned. You imply, to me at least, that it is middle class because it is air-conditioned and not manual labor, or some other factor. It looks to me as though teachers are doing what everyone does - pushing for their work to be more highly valued and compensated - not comparing their work to that of ditch-diggers. What would that have to do with anything? It's as silly as plumber vs. nanny... or whatever. Your job skill set, along with proven results, should determine your pay. It's all about how replaceable you are - and really GOOD teachers are not easy to replace.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

BobS Anonymous

RG, Isn't this the part of the party where you start picking up empty beer bottles and hope the lingerers get the hint that you need to go to bed? Sure it was fun. But that was hours ago :)

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Clay213 Anonymous

I'll support teacher's getting paid more when a Billion dollar plus budget stops churning out so many idiots and thugs.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

BobS Anonymous

"Last line of defense against a nation of retards"

If THATS not a T-Shirt for teachers on strike, I don't know what is.

I can hardly type for laughing so hard.

We GOTTA get Pavel syndicated.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

DC Anonymous

Oh, whatever. I guess maybe we should just close all the schools and import kids from India. Probably cheaper.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Clay213 Anonymous

"Oh, whatever. I guess maybe we should just close all the schools and import kids from India. Probably cheaper."

Might as well, at least the Indians can speak English.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

bobdon000 Anonymous

More money isn't the answer. Doing more with the current (or less resources) is the answer.

Taxpayers should demand that we go to a 12-month school schedule with teachers teaching full-time, like most working Americans and professionals.

Student enrollments can be staggered on a quarterly or semester basis. Students can still get extended time off. This approach is common in many other countries and is used in our own university system. Our current system of using our limited resources for only part of the year isn't working and we can't afford to continue with the current fiscally broke model - it isn't sustainable.

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

But if they supposedly make 64k annualized by your unusual math - and we make them work 12 months straight instead og the supposed 9 that you claim - then shouldn't we pay them 64k for 12 months of work?

How does that save anyone any money?

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

Kay Anonymous

Sounding more and more like bododo has a giant grudge he's been nursing since middle-school. Maybe he had to go to summer school or something?

4 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

wowwow Anonymous

Obviously there's some idiots here like bobdonoo that have no clue what they are talking about. I invite you to do some real teaching by only getting the key to your classroom?? Where do you think all the stuff that is used to teach comes from?? Our damn pocket! 90% of the material comes from our pocket and our time. Our day doesnt end at 4...it continues through the night because of all the things we have to do. And if you're like me working at a poor school, then you know parents sometimes can't even get you the basic supplies. We also have to act as mothers/fathers to some of these children. But ignorant people like bobdonoo have no clue...no clue! I'd be more than happy to work for 12 mos, with a salary of 64k, if and only if, all supplies are given! Come on bobdo...teach for a year..you wouldn't make it.

3 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

KY59742 Anonymous

First off, did you read the article, they are protesting pay cuts.. not being underpaid, but we all deserve raises too, do you not get raises at your current job? DISD starting pay is not 46,000 it is 42,500. Our medical insurance is horrible, for an employee and spouse you pay about 200 a month and then have a 1200 dollar deductible to meet before they even cover you. So what exactly is the un-paralled healthcare that you are speaking of? Even while we are off in the summer time there are still trainings to attend and preparation for the upcoming year. Teachers have many hats, not only do we teach but we are mom, dad, doctor, supporter and so much more to these kids everyday. Before you criticize come and try it.....

3 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

xdavidwattsx Anonymous

Amen, Yost. Amen.

3 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )

jballardford Anonymous

Thank you, Mr. Yost.

3 months, 2 weeks ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )