Dallas City Council to try to ban smoking in bars

James Scott, says:

I think it's obvious there would have to be a provision for hookah lounges (assuming, you want any hookah lounges to stay in business), but isn't "pool hall" a little generic? What exactly constitutes a "pool hall"?

Pavel Lishin, says:

I don't believe this will happen, and I won't cry when I see someone light up in a bar. But it would be nice coming home and not smelling like grandma's ashtray. :(

Tracy Yost, says:

Hiya all,

There is no logic in defense of banning smoking in bars, that when followed to all of it's natural conclusions, does not also lead to banning sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages in public places, banning McDonald's, Krispy Kreme AND Starbuck's, television,automobiles...

There has to be a line drawn somewhere, to separate "what we want our city council to protect us from", from "what we would rather decide for ourselves, thank you very much".

I'm told that this "legally" comes down to mostly a right to work issue - that is, a person should be able to acquire and enjoy a job at any place that "hires people", without health hazards. But the legal reality is that there are distinct criteria for determining "job discrimination" and smoking status is not one of them. Neither is there a category for "alcohol consumer".

There are a handful of companies now that will not hire people who are smokers (and it would also legal for them to refuse to hire non-smokers). What do you think would happen if those same companies decided they would refuse to hire alcohol consumers ? (well besides that would be bad if they were a charter bus company ...) ... I'm pretty sure that idea would fly like a pig.

My points are these:
1) what we know from prohibition is that not only can we not prohibit it, we need to give the alcohol consumers a place to consume in the aggregate, i.e. a tavern.

2) the same logic applies to tobacco consumers.

3) smokers and non-smoker's alike deserve to be able to spend their discretionary time in places that allow or disallow smoking. (as per current ordinance).

4) I love northern CA, but would much rather see a good blues show in north Texas.

Pavel Lishin, says:

Tracy - I don't think that banning fatty foods is a natural consequence. Me scarfing down a burger doesn't harm your health. (Alcohol might, if I decide to drive drunk and run you off the road, though.)

In regard to your points - the prohibition is not an apt comparison. They're not banning cigarettes altogether - only smoking in bars.

Tracy Yost, says:

wow u totally didn't get it Pavel.

Scott Doyle, says:

So DC, what's your wager on how many pool tables an establishment must have before it can be considered a pool hall?

Rick Yost, says:

The point that you folks don't understand (obviously) is that when I smoke a cigarette in my bar, you are not affected at all.

You are only affected if you come to my bar. (are you still with me or should I slow down?) You have the choice to go wherever you want to go- you don't have to come to my bar- where we smoke. You don't have to be around cigarette smoke at all if you don't want to be. (are you still with me?)

However, even though you know you don't ever- EVER have to come to my bar- where we smoke- it still irritates the sh*t out of you that we still do it here. So you just can't help but penalize us- because you can.

Should I say that again- you never have to come to our establishment- but you still don't want us to be able to make the choice to smoke. How selfish is that?
What gives you the right to say what I can, or can't do in my own business?
YOU NEVER HAVE TO EVER SET FOOT IN OUR PLACE AND YOU STILL ARE DETERMINED TO MAKE US DO WHAT YOU WANT US TO. (yes, this time I was yelling)

Because you refuse or ignore your right to make a choice- you're depriving me of my right to make a choice. Amen!

Thanks for the memories folks, the memory of freedom I used to have of living in this society. Thanks for nothing!

Jason Rice, says:

I think we should also tell Rick what to wear. He seems to long for that kind of "guidance."

Hey - I hate smelling like smoke. I don't hang at bars generally. But people - where does this "good for you" crap end? Right at YOUR doorstep.

Scott Doyle, says:

How 'bout them Cowboys?

Rick Yost, says:

Sorry folks, I had to vent. Didn't mean to bring the thread down with so much common sense. "My bad!" However, no one's come up with an intelligent counter to my post. You won't!

Our bar won't fold because of a smoking ban. We Yosts are survivors.

It's all a matter of principle to me. Remember principles? Before the era of Enron, Iraq, and Katrina, they used to be a big deal in America. They still are to me.

Peace

Scott Doyle, says:

Believe me, snowboard9, you're wasting your keystrokes.

Jason Rice, says:

Dang it X*X! You're gonna wipe out my lawn service. I finally got the lower middle class to buy in here with mediocre education , but if you reduce the supply, it won't drive the price of unskilled labor down and my plans of affordable retirement - though short of world domination - will be foiled.

Scott Doyle, says:

I'd be content if they got this bitch over with and made a decision: To ban, or not to ban.

Doyle's patience is dwindling at an increasing rate. Won't someone PLEASE think of the horsie. =(

Jason Rice, says:

Dead horses only got one use, son.

Kevin Kunreuther, says:

Foists daze banns toe-bakky, nekst daze banns de al-key-hole, nekst daze banns sir-tanz lifes muse ick. Wisht we cudz banns daze wunz doo-in de banns in de foist playst.

Rick Yost, says:

I'm going to regret this but... XdavidX- "I'd like to be able to have a beer or see a show, in a bar or club, without increasing my odds of dying from lung cancer."
Then go do it dude! There's a thousand smoke-free places available to you.

Momzilla- "Smoke I can easily avoid by not going to places where it is permitted." One of the only intelligent things posted here. Thank you.

Clay213- "I would be content with smokers and their filthy behaviors being driven into underground smoke easies, as someone had mentioned around here." So would you frequent these 'smoke-easies'? Is that kinda like a 'speak-easy'- kinda like...a bar?
I love your posts man, they're always so whimsical.

One of these days you folks are going to lose the right to do something you care about.
I'm grinning now in anticipation.
I'm done.

Pavel Lishin, says:

DC - I think the problem is that we keep appealing to platonic ideals, which have no place in the world. Rick and Tracy (to name the most vocal opponents) are speaking of the right to self-determination, pursuit of happiness, etc., without being oppressed by the government. Myself and others are talking about the government doing it's job - namely, protecting its citizens from harm. Take their viewpoint to the illogical extreme, and you've got drunk drivers dumping gasoline into rivers. Take my viewpoint to the extreme, and you have a nation of citizens locked up in padded rooms with a tiny window overlooking a drawing of a happy sun.

But none of us want the philosophies we're invoking to be carried anywhere near that far, so let's all quit clinging to them like bloody steak salesmen to a raft in shark infested waters.