Monday, May 26, 2008
Fort Worth buses will soon be outfitted with traffic signal changers
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By early next year, some Fort Worth city buses will be equipped with devices that change a traffic signal from red to green as the bus approaches. No, it's not a clicker, it automatically transmits a signal as the bus drives up. The advantage is that fewer stops at red lights will not only provide customers with quicker rides, but also save on gas. Fort Worth fire trucks use similar technology, but no worries, if a bus and a fire truck come up to a light at the same time they won't collide. The fire trucks will get priority.
Posted by Laura S.
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Comments
Scott Doyle Verified
Sounds pretty lame. Why the hell is it so important that kids get home from school 5 minutes quicker? Wonder how much fuel would actually be saved per bus?
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Pavel Lishin Verified
So how long before people start breaking into the buses to steal these magical devices?
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Kay Anonymous
School buses? or City buses?
I thought the article was about city buses. I think it is a terrible idea. Now at every FW intersection every personal vehicle will have to watch for a bus coming from somewhere down the cross streets ... even tho the right of way is temporarily theirs - but likely to change unexpectedly.
(or will the buses have sirens like the firetrucks now?)
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
James Scott Verified
I wouldn't imagine the idea is for the lights to change immediately, as you would expect for a fire truck. I'm sure the regular time would be given for the yellow->red light transition, so you would never have cars having to watch for buses and slam on their breaks.
Now - the problem I do see is that cars are going to try and jump in line behind the buses to ride in their wake so to speak to try and beat all the lights - now that sounds like a good idea!
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Pavel Lishin Verified
What do you mean, watch for a bus? Just watch the light. The lights won't switch instantly, I imagine, and a bus won't just barrel through an intersection.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Kay Anonymous
What information do you have that shows the lights won't change as soon as the bus gets near them?
It's a stoopid idea.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
James Scott Verified
I'm sure the lights will change when the bus gets near them, but I don't think they're going to get any crazy massive car pile-ups because the lights all of a sudden changed when a bus got near. Logic would only dictate that the lights will only change after giving everyone ample enough time with a yellow light before changing to red. Obviously, logic doesn't always follow with city programs. However, this isn't Dallas we're talking about, so I'd have to say their safe.
Either way, I think it's an interesting experiment if nothing else - it may encourage more people to use public transportation if it means getting to your destination more quickly.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
Oh, heh, had another article about schools open and presumed it was school buses. Me sho shorry.
Regardless, what the hell gives them priority? Severely doubt this will drastically change travel time on buses. At least, not to the point where someone who'd normally be fine with a car thinks "Oh, wow, I could save 5 minutes on the bus thanks to this...but still take half an hour longer to get anywhere I need to go. Thanks, Ft. Worth!"
Still gonna have to hit bus stops regularly, etc, and I'm sure not every light will automagically change for 'em...surely there's synchronization at specific intersections that supersede a freakin' bus coming through.
Just sounds ridiculous.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Pavel Lishin Verified
I'd like to see how this plays out. It takes forever to get anywhere on a bus nowadays, especially if you let the DART website plan your trip. This could actually make them usable.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
David Gouldin Staff
No need to steal the "magical devices". Surely they're using RF to transmit the signal which means you would just need to discover the transmission frequency and have an RF scanner / recording device. Once captured all you'd have to do is rebroadcast the signal and voila, green lights.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
David, according to the spiffy diagram on the FWST article page, it's optical (pretty small, btw, needs easily legible font):
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
momzilla Anonymous
It's not that different from a train crossing, and the bus is moving more people through the intersection in a shorter period of time so it seems as though it should take precedence.
I wish our public transportation was more convenient and safe, and applaud most efforts to improve the service. If the time spent at red lights can be reduced it might offset the lost time spent making stops for passengers, and encourage more riders. And hopefully the folks sitting alone in their SUV at that red light will be jealous enough to park that gas hog and take the bus.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
David Gouldin Staff
That'll teach me to RTFA before posting. Backup solution: tape a flashlight to your hood with a contact switch on your steering wheel. :)
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
In your defense, RTFA doesn't necessarily apply since the chart's never mentioned in the article (simply displayed alongside). =p
And momzilla, I'm not quite convinced this is something that's going to cause a spike in bus passengers, especially since it seems like more of a fuel efficiency decision than anything. It's quite different than a train crossing, imo - trains can't stop as easily as over-the-road vehicles.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Pavel Lishin Verified
There have been rumors that flicking your brights at the correct frequency will trigger detectors. I've actually seen someone's brights flicker, and the light quickly change to green, but the flickering was too fast to be manual - they must have installed something.
Then again it was like 3 am, and I was probably just hallucinating.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
John McClelland Verified
I still want the flying cars I was promised as a kid. It is 2008 after all!
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Kay Anonymous
:) I've wanted a land-speeder just like Luke Skywalker's in the original Star-Wars for over 30 years! Not the same as those flying cars, but better IMO.
I agree, the possible 5 minutes saved is not going to increase ridership of FW buses. The price of gas might however. I'm sure there is a much better way to spend that $300,000.00 to increase ridership or pay for ever increasing gas prices than this dumb green-light idea. Sounds like someone could be getting something out of the deal, and it's not the general public. It's not Dallas, but it is still city government nonetheless.
Before there was so much traffic in a relatively new developing area of town --- back in the '80s, I know someone that used a friend's garage door opener to change a red light to green. It changed instantly upon the little click each and every time. The first time not really expecting it to work we were totally taken by surprise, thereafter it was a test to see if it still worked. It did.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Jesus Valadez Verified
Scott: "Oh, wow, I could save 5 minutes on the bus thanks to this...but still take half an hour longer to get anywhere I need to go. Thanks, Ft. Worth!"
If you have ever gotten on DART or the T, you would know that 5 minutes can make a huge difference between getting home 30 minutes to an hour later. Most people have connecting trips and while most of us do plan to have enough time to catch the next bus, delays happen and we sometimes miss the bus by a minute. Which makes us actually late to our designation by 30-60 minutes since we need to wait for the next one.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Clay213 Anonymous
Bus traffic priority is hardly a 'dumb idea.'
Reading these comments however, certainly was.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
But Jesus, if each bus you need to ride is equipped with such technology...would there really be much of a difference?
Point is that the bus will still take a ridiculously long time compared to your own vehicle. I've mapped out my personal route to work here in Dallas (www.dart.org for those unaware) - it's 6 miles away, and it would take half an hour longer by bus each way.
That's an hour a day, Jesus. Considering I sleep 7 of the 24, work 8 of them, etc...an hour is precious to me. Even if the buses darting through intersections without stopping saved 10 minutes each way...we're still talking 20 minutes longer one way, without the convenience of a vehicle at lunch time (there's nothing within walking distance aside from our downstairs cafeteria, and it leaves entirely too much to be desired).
So, again, I'm not quite convinced this is going to motivate too many peeps to swap from their ride to the bus. I sincerely hope so, but I doubt it. I'd sooner rock a scooter than be stuck with the inconvenience (scooter's are pretty fun to ride, too).
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
momzilla Anonymous
When I lived in Salt Lake City, the bus took a little longer than using my car if you measured the trip only. However, for example, the bus dropped me off at the front door of the Eaglegate building so that I could walk right in with dry feet and get onto the elevator. It was too expensive to park in the parking garage there, so I had to use a lot a block or so away and walk. Putting these together, I ended up getting to my desk faster and more comfortably by riding the bus. Plus, I got to listen to the radio and read the paper during my commute.
I don't think that this alone will motivate a great number of people, but I hope that it will motivate some. Small increments are progress nevertheless. A lot still needs to be done to make public transportation in our area more usable and attractive. And this will come down to demand by the users, and willingness to invest in it.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Clay213 Anonymous
Traffic priority signals are more about helping the bus stay on schedule than about it being faster.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
Scott Doyle Verified
Fair enough, Clay. Guess I presumed they'd already figured out how to relatively stay on schedule with the signal system as-is.
But if all buses are equipped with changers, seems that universally removes one of multiple factors causing untimeliness...and likelihood of missing a connection wouldn't be reduced all that much.
Keep in mind, I'm just an internet person. I only go to Ft. Worth about twice a year and I'll probably never ride their buses - simply doesn't seem to add up.
1 year, 5 months ago ( Link to this comment | Suggest removal )
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