Defendants in Holy Land Muslim charity trial in Dallas found guilty on all counts

"IF at first you don't succeed, try again."

Is that an attempt at humor?

What is the purpose of injecting this into what should be a straight news story?

bobdon000 Anonymous

12 months ago
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bobdon000, i just saw your comment. please excuse what may have sounded like an improperly light or dismissive tone to this serious and important story. it was not an attempt at humor, it was just my effort to quickly and efficiently summarize the fact that federal prosecutors had already once taken the Holy Land Foundation to trial, but were unsuccessful in their ability to produce a conviction. thus, they subsequently initiated a second trial -- the results of which you can see above. (i.e., this time they were able to produce a conviction.)

i confess that sometimes i err on the side of brevity; i.e., i falsely assume that readers are completely up to speed on all of the details regarding one story or another. that's probably a mistake on my part. it's perhaps wiser to give all the details, and if readers already know those facets of the story, they can sift through to the important and/or new parts of the story they don't already know.

i guess i fear that some readers/users may not have the time to sift through all of the details of a story and so i hope that by summarizing with little phrases such as "if you don't succeed, try again" (and if you notice, i even summarized <em>that</em> - because it should really say "if you don't succeed, try TRY again" - TWO "try"s - which i deleted one of them, in my perhaps wrong-headed efforts to be snappy and brief), i'm saving them time so that they can do other things as well as visit Pegasus News (hopefully numerous times throughout the day!). i'm trying to add value, not extra words.

nonetheless, i rue the fact that my inept summarizing created an impression that i was injecting humor into a straight news story. that's definitely not an impression i was trying to create

Teresa Gubbins Staff

12 months ago
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TG - I took it as a fun observation that this case is a zillion miles from over as this case will spend even more time on appeals than anything else.

Jason Rice Verified

12 months ago
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I hope they will pack their bag's and go to the next level of Higher education and legal evolution, maybe try some Jesus next time.......J>C,... Taxpayer.

alexander troup Verified

12 months ago
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A.T. How about all the lawyers involved jump in a well, the Holy Land freaks GTFO of the country for good? Works for me.

Travis Bush Verified

12 months ago
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A Barrel a day will keep the bill colletor's away...While the lawyer's are now in intensive care over at Parkland I was told by the doorman, Today.....A/T..Eyeball.

alexander troup Verified

12 months ago
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(for the commentors, not the writer)

Do you really understand Hamas? Or it's role or for that matter it's current role? Do you understand that your non-substansive comments that try to come off as clever, but mostly come across as superficial and annoying... contribute to nothing.

If you were Muslim, you may believe that Hamas is a cause you believe in, a budding new political party that you would like to help, because they are furthering a cause you believe in. The Federal Government is going to tell you that helping these people is against the law? If your against Israel, your against the United States? Sounds like somebody has soveriegnty issues.

I think the writers top reference may be linked to the constitution: 5th Amendment (double Jeopardy)considering the original trial was a mistrial it doesn't really apply. 6th Amendment "the right to a speedy trial" that one... how long has it been 7 years... that's along time to wait to be found guilty or innocent.

It would make me think twice about contributing any money to a cause that Israel might not like.

clearsky24 Anonymous

12 months ago
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Some of us would prefer Israel not be given the "special consideration" they currently receive from our government. However, I don't think anyone can make the claim that Hamas is purely political in nature. It is a fact that they have had a violent military component since at least 1992. There is no way to tell how much of the money the HLF received went to fund the Brigades, but it would be foolish to believe none of it did.

Hamas isn't the only organization of its type to get the attention of the government. The FBI infiltrated and tried to stop the flow of money to Sinn Féin for a long time.

Travis Bush Verified

12 months ago
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Yes this is a very important trial, while it took place in Dallas this week and ended as it did,Does Dallas have to be a Court room for this kind of Activity..While in all sober mood's and thought's,.. I ... heard the new's today,... The legal crew is blown away and now they want the Supreme Court of activity......A/T....Eyeball.

alexander troup Verified

12 months ago
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I would make the case that the United States and Israel have very violent military components.

Luke Skywalker was definitely a terrorist. So were 39 men signing a piece of paper in 1787. (or 1776 for that matter)

When people fight for their rights to exist, sometimes things get ugly.

But if the defendents don't disburse the money, how are they to know it's end goal?

When someone receives a welfare check how are we to know they wont buy cigarettes?

With he present Anti-muslim sentiment in this country I fear for their right for a fair trial, without a biased media.

Or biased comments "the Holy Land freaks GTFO of the country for good? Works for me. "

clearsky24 Anonymous

12 months ago
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(sorry adding two things) 1. The reason Dallas is the location, is because in the constitution it spells out that a trial must occur in the state or district where the act occurs. 2. Another reference to the 6th amendment: People have a right to confront those who provide evidence against them, in this instance there were "private testimonies".... what's up with that?

clearsky24 Anonymous

12 months ago
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I understand and agree with you, but will this kind of legal activity continue in the handling of these kinds of people for Dallas and in Texas....I did not invite the war or their Relgion,....and we should be moving away from that era......

alexander troup Verified

12 months ago
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Biased? Sure I am. If people want to raise money for organizations that are at war with another country, then do so elsewhere. Simply put.

"I would make the case that the United States and Israel have very violent military components."

Hamas is not a government.

"When people fight for their rights to exist, sometimes things get ugly."

Certainly, but there is no need to contribute to the ugliness.

"But if the defendents don't disburse the money, how are they to know it's end goal?"

If you thought you were giving to a charity that might use some of that money for violent purposes, would you knowingly give money to that organization?

"With he present Anti-muslim sentiment in this country I fear for their right for a fair trial, without a biased media."

Every media outlet is biased in some way or another. The problem comes when Hamas cranks up the rhetoric about jihad. This kind of media gets placed all over the Internet and the notion of a fair trial becomes even farther from happening. Whether it is called "being foisted on your own petard", or an unfair consequence of the digital age, it was one of the big parts of the new trial.

Travis Bush Verified

12 months ago
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Travis I beleive you are a descendet of the Spanish Basque Resistance fighter's from the 1930's.... well Said.....Amigo..A/T... Comdrad to the arm's.

alexander troup Verified

12 months ago
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"Certainly, but there is no need to contribute to the ugliness."

Do you even know what your saying here? I don't understand. That's like saying why is that guy kicking that baby? "I don't know but I am not getting involved, it's ugly".

Every time I write my paycheck, (thru taxes) I knowingly give money to an organization with violent purposes.

You may or may not find this video enlightening, the reason it's relevant to this conversation is because it's about the media... and it asks the question "why would our media lie?"

but here ...obviously our media has concealed the truth... the question again is why?

So when you talk about Jihad propaganda, I wonder who is the one that spreads this? Is it really Hamas.

Please watch this video, it's very straight forward.

clearsky24 Anonymous

12 months ago
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It is all ugly, but they should not kick the baby over here, by turning our Economey into a stress cesspool, of anger and family hostility, when you dont have Thanksgiving...And as I said a Barrell a day keeps the Bill colletor's away...beside, I have seen the scar's of Nam and Korea in my family...next week they may say God is the boggie man...but your story is real.....

alexander troup Verified

12 months ago
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But you have already kicked the baby, see you actually haven't been paying attention, and you don't really care.

We have already giving the aid and the military might to one of two sides, can you guess which one that is?

My point is we need to mind our own business, not be the worlds police. Not take either side, the CIA calls "blow back" what we call terrorism. Terrorism is a tactic, not a group, and it's hard to have a war on a tactic.

I don't really think this conversation is going to go anywhere valuable, so I may just say good evening.

clearsky24 Anonymous

12 months ago
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I do care,and I am too old for this new one...The 21st Century problem,this war was brought up and I am cutting the corners so we dont end up like Germany after 1919...or Viet Nam after 1975, any way.....I will now say Good night to everyone and have a good Thanksgiving week, until then A.T,... Roman Warrior with one eye.

alexander troup Verified

12 months ago
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'So when you talk about Jihad propaganda, I wonder who is the one that spreads this? Is it really Hamas."

Every piece of media has an origin and it isn't hard to find the source once it is propagated. Where it goes online is the gamble that the originator takes, and I bet the video evidence offered at trial did them no good whatsoever.

Travis Bush Verified

12 months ago
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Again Travis, your on too a very good D.N.A test on who make the media think and talk, and my last post on this one...I can only conform to one thing this year,....Get out of the War..end of story...A/T,Passanger Boarding the Titantic.

alexander troup Verified

12 months ago
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There is no shortage of christians in this area that hate muslim, so it isnt too hard for prosecutors to find enough to convict muslim of whatever the govt wants to get them for.

zainypagan Anonymous

12 months ago
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And apparently there are plenty of Muslims in Richardson who preferred to send their money to Hamas via entities like the HLF.

Travis Bush Verified

12 months ago
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This brings up a question, if our government gives our money to a foreign country to fight a war, and supply troops with food and weapons. Who are they to say we can't?

Who are they to say who is right? geez 70 years ago, Israel didn't exist and Palestine had a stamp and a place on the maps, now people tell you palestine never existed. And we must defend Israel. Why? The point is, we need to get out of all countries.

We don't fight wars for democracy... Isreal is not a democracy half the people that live there are not aloud to vote. geez, were not even a democracy... were a republic. So why are we constantly told we fight wars for democracy.

We fight wars for the highest bidder. You shouldn't be able to arrest people for supporting people in another country. Should arrest them for sponsoring attacks in or against this country.

Every Palestinian that dies over there is ten more terrorists, our children will fight.

clearsky24 Anonymous

12 months ago
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I remember going to Irish-American events back in the day before the IRA "made peace" and there was always a collection for "Northern Aid". Who knew where it went? Point is, all "liberation" organizations have violent and non-violent sectors (just like governments) and that's how they win support. Kudos to Clearsky24 for reminding us that when we pay taxes, we're supporting violence. Every American taxpayer is forced to finacially underwrite the violence practiced by the US (and clients like Israel), I'd like to opt out of supporting that form of "terrorism".

chriss Anonymous

12 months ago
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"You shouldn't be able to arrest people for supporting people in another country."

I have the idea your idea of support is simply "more fuel for the fire". You can bring up Israel all you want, but it seems you would put Hamas up on a pedestal. One that doesn't include mention of terrorist activities or having a hand in disrupting the Israeli/Palestinian peace process.

If there were a way for the money trail to be followed, I would have no issue with the likes of the HLF, but that simply isn't the case. And let's be honest, we aren't talking about the Red Cross, or even the Red Crescent. We are talking about a violent political party with a military arm that has always pledged to destroy Israel.

I have already mentioned that I do not approve of the way our government has catered to Israel and their political operatives here in the United States.. As well, I don't approve of the culture of hate that all sides of the current conflict in Palestine and Israel have displayed. All that hate, and for a lot longer than 70 years, doesn't endear most to either position.

Travis Bush Verified

12 months ago
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If your home is swept away by a tsunami, or earthquake- all who can should lend a hand.

If you're fighting the same centuries-old king-of-the-hill-war with your neighbor over land, or worse- religious differences (or both), I say you are on your own. Let us know how it all works out.

Rick Yost Verified

12 months ago
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Israel did not start this fight, you can lay that at feet of our British cousins. UN agreed to seperate land into 2 countries..palestine and Israel (BTW Palestine was a made up name from Julius Caesar, used by British wogs to tweak the Jews). Britain tried to keep Jews from importing weapons and people to fight a war to SURVIVE, not play king of the hill or any such nonsense.

So that when arabs overran Israel, Britain's hands would be clean and they could keep a nice supply of oil coming to them. It FAILED 1948-1956-1967-1973, all wars against Israel failed.

So they decided to make US/UN give them a piece of land IN Israel to launch attacks (yes Democrat/Republicans presidents alike have pushed Israel to allow baby-killing monsters to squat on sovereign land). Ask yourself this if Canada came across border and said we like North Dakota it is our "alleged" homeland, we demand you secede it to us right now and we will stay here until you do. Do you think for 1 freaking second US Governemnt would go OK, hell no they would bomb North Dakota back to stone age....so why demand a different situation for sovereign owners of land they PURCHASED.

That's right boys and girls Israelis purchased land they are on from arabs, who were later killed by their own peace loving people for selling land to Jews. Also Israelis did not JUST get there, they have lived in Israel since before recorded history.....they lived there when arabs held it and will live their forever as G-d's chosen people.

Also raise your hand if you know the answer to this one (don't be shy now) do any of you remember the term palestinian being used BEFORE 1967...Answer...NO!!!, Yasser Arafat (who by the way murdered 3 American diplomats) coined phrase, also let's knock the nasty lie "Right of Return" out here.

The people left land on advice of arab governments, that they would wipe out Israel and you can have any home you want (NOT a problem if you never held title to it). As we have seen before that war/idea failed, so now arabs pressing for a right to come to your house demand it and you have to move out and thank them....feeling all warm and fuzzy for baby killers now.

Someone brought up IRA, bomber or associate of a bomber who wears a suit and talks peace...still spell it T-E-R-R-O-R-I-S-T.

Do you know that many people feel bad for HLF, funny up until you found out they paying 25K to your family so you would strap on a bomb and blow up a bus full of women and children.

CAIR is also a supporter of terrorism, they just don't dirty their hands...they make excuses or try and cloud issue by claiming anyone telling the TRUTH is a rascist.

My brother was in Vietnam, he said you couldn't tell if they were a friend or going to kill you with a bomb...kind of sounds like what Israel faces today. Too bad we prop up a government that wants to stop murderers and terrorists, rather than those sweet faced kids watching a mickey mouse like cartoon character telling them to kill Jews and to hate USA.

Israel has survived despite the indifference of the US presidents, we do not feed their troops. We supply military aid to them, same as we do 1/2 the civilized world...want it to stop. Then try changing 70 years of US foreign policy, in fact tell State Department you want terrorism to stop....you got a better chance of catching a rainbow in a glass jar.

Instead of blaming Israel, why don't you blame the cowardly SOB's who keep thousands of people in poverty and use them as a shield to attempt to murder an entire race of people...who simply want to live in peace and are forced to defend themselves in their own country and here in America.

IT"S THIS SIMPLE....you pick a fight with me, I beat you up...now you want EVERYONE to take your side and act like you are victim...you know what I say to that...BULLSTUFF

Israel was willing to accept 1948 UN mndate dividing land, arabs were not started a war and LOST...now they want to play poor mistreated victims...they were the F-ing aggressors...NOT ISRAEL.

Before you spout off with your pleasant, inocous liberal rhetoric, take 20 minutes and learn about what you speak BEFORE you open mouth and insert your feet in up to knees.

TXJack58 Anonymous