SW Baptist Theological Seminary prof says use of birth control pills = murder

interestedcitizen, says:

I didn't hear the professor's sermon, but I presume what he meant was that, if birth control pills kill a fertilized ovum, that is murder. If, instead, they prevent fertilization by preventing semen from coming into contact with an ovum, that is not murder. The condom keeps semen from fertilizing eggs, so use of the condom wouldn't be murder. It isn't the death of sperm cells that is murder, nor is the expulsion of an unfertilized ovum murder. Neither birth control pills nor condoms kill sperm or eggs. Vaginal jellies and suppositories containing nonoxynol 9 do kill sperm and do not have the same ethical implications. It is the intentional use of a substance or a device with the intent to kill a human being that is murder. A fertilized ovum, with a full complement of genetic information from each parent, is a human being. If that human being is spontaneously aborted or dies, it is a sad event, and many families grieve after miscarriages, because miscarriage is more than simply death of potential life. It is the death of a human being, and that is always sad. For that reason, an IUD, which prevents the implantation of a fertilized ovum into the uterine wall, is murder.

My recollection is that birth control pills work by mimicking pregnancy. That is, during pregnancy, the endometrial lining is maintained. Because birth control pills mimic pregnancy, and because pregnancy makes women want to eat more, that is one reason women on the pill tend to crave food and gain weight. There is a feedback mechanism that tells the ovaries not to release eggs as long as the endometrial lining is maintained. So, I have always thought, birth control pills don't generally work by killing fertilized ova.

It is my understanding that the Morning After pill does work by causing an early abortion of a fertilized ovum. If it merely prevents fertilization, it is not murder, but if it causes the death of the embryo by causing the endometrial lining to be sloughed off or otherwise prevents implantation, it would be murder.

If the preacher knows something I don't know about how birth control pills work, maybe I have something to learn.

DC, says:

Yet, maybe between a quarter to third of fertilized eggs may fail to implant and not result in pregnancy. I suppose that must be either a woman's fault or maybe God's fault. Therefore, we could argue that about a third of women are murderers and God is an accessory to all of those cases. Yes, yes, I see this going places.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/a...

DC, says:

If you do that, they're just going to go on and on about wanting tiny life preservers attached to the undersides of all new toilets.

interestedcitizen, says:

Follow the argument

A spontaneous abortion is not murder because it does not involve the intentional use of a device or a substance to intentionally destroy human life. Also, many families who experience spontaneous abortion grieve because the spontaneously aborted child was a live human being at one point, abeit dependent upon the protective uterine environment. Dependence on a mother's body does not make it less human, given that a born child best survives on its own mother's milk for life.

Unless there is fertilization there is no human life. There is no such thing as a murdered sperm or a murdered egg.

There are alternatives to the birth control pill, none of which involve murder of a human life. I agree with Lisa that the side effects of the pill aren't desirable, although, as some people have pointed out, pregnancy poses its own health risks. Vasectomy is an option. The condom and vaginal gels are another option. Another option is self discipline combined with observation of a woman's bodily secretions. Family planning is best undertaken in a united family context with long term objectives. The emphasis on spontaneity as a feature of a birth control plan presumes that men and women are seeking random sexual encounters. Random and spontaneous sexual encounters lead to health and social problems far beyond the problem of unwanted pregnancy and murder of tiny, defenseless human beings.

ch0, says:

Walking on the sidewalk is a form of murder. I bet this idiot crushes plenty of hapless snails on dewy mornings. Idiot.

momzilla, says:

Speaking as someone who has been happily married for a very, very long time, I have to say that sponteneity shouldn't be underrated.

Wasn't it Dear Abby that used to call the rhythm method, "Vatican roulette"?

interestedcitizen, says:

cho.

Accidentally crushing snails on a dewy morning is not murder because (1) it is not an intentional form of killing and (2) the victim is not a human being.

Also, since when does labeling a person "idiot" constitute part of a reasonable debate? How is that rational? Usually, in formal debate, when people start resorting to "ad hominem" attacks and hurtful labels, it is an admission that he is losing the debate.

Todd: Observation of a woman's vaginal secretions is more than simply watching the caledar. I observed artificial insemination of cattle when I was young. Because it was expensive, the cows had to be inseminated at just the right time. There was a vaginal discharge that told us they were ovulating. If they weren't discharging the clear mucous, they weren't fertile and it would have been a waste of money to attempt to inseminate them. Human females discharge a similar mucous when they are fertile. Also there are temperature variations that accompany ovulation. Smart people, not idiots, can observe these things and plan families without the use a birth control pills that alter a woman's natural metabolism. For extra assurance, they can use condoms and contraceptive gels.

If we really stop to think about it, the birth control pill is really for the purpose of satisfying men's selfish demands to be satisfied at their whim.

interestedcitizen, says:

Here's a link to a website that testifies to the reliability and scientific validity of the Billings Ovulation Method as an effective form of birth control. I think this should shut down any thought that I am an "idiot."

http://www.billings-centre.ab.ca/gene...

The only thing required for this method to be effective is a change in the way we think. We are consumers. We have become accustomed to getting what we want instantaneously instead of waiting and planning for it. There are clear, reasonable alternatives to birth control pills, once we get out of our self centered mindset.

DC, says:

Actually, it appears that the rhythm method is also MURDER!!!

http://www.newscientist.com/article/d...

As proof, we here have some intravaginal footage of the outcome of the Billings 'rhythm-style' method:

momzilla, says:

If you want to get technical about it, the only permissible reason to withhold marital intimacy from your spouse is for the purpose of fasting and prayer, after which you are instructed to come back together. That would make not having sex with a spouse for the express purpose of preventing conception unBiblical.

interestedcitizen, says:

The death of nonviable embryos is not murder because they die naturally,not as the result of the use of a device or substance to prevent them from living as there is in the case of the pill or the IUD. The science article is a propaganda piece, not a serious, objective science article. It is poorly argued logically. I have established clearly that spontaneous abortion is not murder, although it is a sad event, just as the death of any human is a sad event. No one is culpable in the case of spontaneous abortion. Even God is not culpable, because God is the creator and sustainer of life. If God chooses to cut life short, that is God's choice, not ours. Every breath we take is an act of God's mercy, and we should be thankful that we have the time that we do have to live. Induced abortion, however, is murder because it is the intentional destruction of human life. Human life is a genetically complete zygote.

A married man and woman have an equal voice in the type of birth control they each use. Family size is usally a topic of discussion prior to marriage. A woman who makes it clear before she marries that she wants five children has a right to feel betrayed when her husband, without her consent, gets a vasectomy after two children. Similarly, a woman betrays her husband when she uses a pill, an IUD, or abortion, to limit the family to two after agreeing before marriage to have five children.

Marriage involves covenants. Though people deny that they are legally bound to promises they make before marriage, they are certainly morally bound. The vows they make in church are sacred vows. People do give up individual autonomy when they recite those vows before the general public.

Lisa's comments appear to be those of an unmaried woman who seeks random, unplanned, spontaneous sexual pairings. Aside from being the pretext to commit murder of innocent human beings, those random sexual pairings present other health and social problems.

viva_la_malcriada, says:

"When a man can delivery an 8lb,6oz, 21 1/2in baby through his penis then and only then would he be allowed to have an opinion on what form of birth control women choose(including abortion).

Don't like it, get snipped!"

LLM, I think I love you.

DC, says:

A) unicorn B) cake topper

ch0, says:

Human life is NOT more valuable than any other plant, animal, or fungus.

ch0, says:

But it's true, my friend. Until we leave this planet, we have the utmost responsibility to NOT kill ourselves and our foodsources off, until we fulfill our role as galactic conquerors, at which point we'll face the same issues all over again.

HyperNewsFlash Milky Way Population exceeds 300 quintillion, hydrogen resources at risk, Greater Magellanic Colonies mount protest..." and then you'll have 'racist' political fights among the a-lifes and the bios of the Milky Hood...

All I'm saying is that "murder" is subjective. Our ridiculous lifestyle of broken sprinklers shooting straight up in the air on every other suburban block while African orphans perish from disentery daily is RIDICulous... where's the f-in sense? F-k grass, F-k humans! My life means nothing in the scheme, and neither does yours! Nor this priest guy talkin about aborting babies who would end up neglected criminals in the end. Ad hominem to him and his!! Nutballs.

And Jason - you too rank higher than any microscopic life in my book, except maybe the Waterbears http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrada

interestedcitizen, says:

cho

If you are not more valuable than a plant or a fungus, when is the last time you used the toxin from a killed fungus (penicillin, amoxcyllin, tetracycline, etc) to kill a bacterial infection in your body? I take it that you do consider it worthwhile to sacrifice a fungus to harvest the toxin necessary to kill a bacterial infection in your body.

I take it that you do consider yourelf more valuable than viruses or bacteria, because you do take inoculations against viruses consisting of dead viruses, and you do use topical ointments designed to kill bacteria such as staphylococcus.

Further, I'm sure you drink either chlorinated or distilled water, the purpose of which is to kill potentially deadly bacteria. Suffice it to say that you do consider yourself a higher and more important form of life than streptococcus, staphylococcus, shigella, and fecal coliform bacteria.

As for fungus, I'm sure you have used a fungicide to kill mildew growing on the surface on the north side of your house. I'm sure that someone used fungicide to kill or prevent ringworms ( fungus). Also, you probably used a product like Tinactin to kill jock itch or Dessenex to kill athlete's foot (also a fungus)

When you use a device or a substance to kill anything (fungus, bacteria, grass, weeds, tree, diatom, worm, bee, or a human zygote), you demonstrate that you consider your life more valuable and important than the thing you kill.

ch0, says:

I was generally referring to all non-me humans. Like Pavel and anyone else, I'm all for killing chickens and veggies and germs to preserve my DNA. The circle of life is just as it should be (until we become sufficiently advanced to escape it), but unfettered exponential growth will, in the end, eat all the agar and kill everything in our dish. Oops.

This is why some dipwad Luddite trying to control the reproductive rights of others gets my goat. The world needs MORE reproductive rights, not fewer. Depending on the forces of war, disease, and famine for population control is backwards and ignorant. We should be better than that by now.

And thank you for conjecturing on the state of my crotch, citizen.

ch0, says:

Or at the very least, get them to identify their gift/passion early, and help them legitimately monetize it early, while they finance their own training and learn to invest/save.

Re: thread topic<br> If birth control is murder, and abstinence is the answer, shouldn't we just dribble SSRIs or somesuch analogue into all available drinking water? Copulation rates would gradually decline, moral laws would remain intact, and everyone would be considerate to each other and content unto themselves.