Collin County getting fleeced by Dallas County

alexander troup, says:

Soon to be Monster County wars as we Canablize these districts......A/T, Time to platt and map the new tax line...or get eattin up...

Jason Rice, says:

Scot - think of it as a "guilt tithe."

Beautiful map btw.

Yeah, when "team player" pops up it usually means the guy speaking is taking the weekend off and you're in the office alone.

If we wanted to LIVE in Dallas County - We would. If you want to live as if you were in Collin... for $20 all your dreams can come true

Andrew Laska, says:

That DMN piece was not an editorial. It was a story that discussed both sides of the issues.

Many Dallas county school districts pay into robin hood. One example is the Richardson Independent School District where 60% of the students live in Dallas proper and in Dallas County. It pays into Robin Hood.

Carrollton-Farmers Branch pays into Robin Hood and so does Coppell. I'm sure there are more.

The author posits a non-symmetric argument. He says the criticism of Collin County is that is "not playing nice" and then says if it played nice it would be a fleecing of Collin County. Actually, I think the argument is that Collin County is allegedly fleecing Dallas County.

I work in Downtown Dallas, and I live in Richardson. Richardson (i.e. mostly in Dallas County) residents who ride DART at my workplace are outnumbered many times over by people from cities that are not members of DART but who use it. So one argument goes (and I won't say that I necessarily buy into it) is that these non-member cities are fleecing Plano, Richardson, and other DART cities.

I wonder where the author thinks non-insured people from Collin County go for certain medical services? I wonder if there are statistics to suggest that they go to Dallas County (particularly Parkland), and therefore one might argue that Collin County is leeching off of Dallas County in that regard.

Jason Rice, says:

The Parkland drain is indeed terrible on the Dallas pocketbook, but I'd rather see reasonable funds be put to use north of 635 for uninsured care. Pouring money into a <strike>black hole</strike> gravitational singularity doesn't sound the least bit interesting. I do know the influx of that care at my favorite ER (if an ER can be favored at any level) has grown fast - as evidenced by the signage in there - anecdotal only, but supportive of the Collin Commish's claim that " .. more hospitals have opened so fewer people travel to Parkland"

I am intrigued to look for some stats of Collin County debtors to Parkland. Any leads appreciated. There was a 2003 or 2004 article on that exact topic, but I can't find it now.

Jason Rice, says:

This, my dear Mike, is why journalists will always be of value.
Thanks

AnnMarie Wilson, says:

He's on a roll today isn't he! Golly sharing expense, sharing good things... sharing to make sure all have the advantages, health care, education - not only the wealthy.

What are we thinking!

Hmmm maybe that this isn't a country that believes in serfs and the wealthy only controlling things? That we were and are surviving because of the regular person- not the millionaires..

Get your head out of your self-made fantasy land and back into the real world Scot.

Chris Kidd, says:

Ive been saying this for years, Collin/Denton Co. needs to get its act in gear and build its own public hospital network, instead of sucking off the teet of Dallas Co. I can see using parkland for a regional lvl1 trauma center, but for a uninsured sprained ankle or sick tummy, get your own counties to take care of it.

Scot Walker, says:

"That DMN piece was not an editorial. It was a story that discussed both sides of the issues."

Oh, it was a hard news piece with no judgement? I disagree.

"Many Dallas county school districts pay into robin hood."

So? How does that refute what I stated at all? It doesn't. The criticism of Collin County is it doesn't help pay for the regional issues. I pointed out that's false.

"He says the criticism of Collin County is that is "not playing nice" and then says if it played nice it would be a fleecing of Collin County"

I have two points:

1. Collin County does indeed contribute millions to regional issues.
2. If you want to have liberal policies in Dallas County that require a lot of tax dollars, you pay for it.

"I work in Downtown Dallas, and I live in Richardson. Richardson (i.e. mostly in Dallas County) residents who ride DART at my workplace are outnumbered many times over by people from cities that are not members of DART but who use it. So one argument goes (and I won't say that I necessarily buy into it) is that these non-member cities are fleecing Plano, Richardson, and other DART cities."

Yeah, so?

"I wonder where the author thinks non-insured people from Collin County go for certain medical services?"

There are three things wrong with this argument:

1. You assume the only and best entity out there for helping the poor and uninsured is the government, when every example I can think of says the government is inept and wasteful

2. You assume there are no options for free healthcare in Collin County. You are wrong.

3. You think the only government funding in Collin County is from the county. Wrong. The cities have budget items for grants for these things.

What happens to Collin County drivers who get hit by uninsured Dallas County drivers? Should Dallas County pay Collin County?

What happens to Collin County homeowners who get robbed by Dallas County robbers? Should Dallas County pay Collin County?

Do you see how your logic is seriously flawed? It is not the government's role to pick up the check for irresponsible people.

How much money did everyone on this thread donate to Parkland last year?

Scot Walker, says:

"He's on a roll today isn't he! Golly sharing expense, sharing good things... sharing to make sure all have the advantages, health care, education - not only the wealthy."

This shows me that you don't even now what the issue here is and you aren't reading the articles you are responding to.

Collin County already gives hundreds of millions to education via Robin Hood.

The cities of Collin County have grants for free clinics, homeless shelters, etc., in Collin County.

The issue here is Dallas County wanting other counties to pay for its own spending. You pay for your spending and we'll pay for our spending.

"Hmmm maybe that this isn't a country that believes in serfs and the wealthy only controlling things? That we were and are surviving because of the regular person- not the millionaires."

Yes, I know it's hard for you to discuss issues like an adult without creating class warfare and making ad hominem comments.

"Get your head out of your self-made fantasy land and back into the real world Scot"

Plano taxpayers gave $87 million dollars last year alone for other school districts' funding.

Plano gives ~$60 million per year to DART for service that aren't close to being worth ~$60 million.

Collin County state taxes are spent at a greater proportion by Dallas County than Collin County.

Andrew Laska, says:

Given that most of your comments are vague and consist of the cherry picking of a sentence here and there I am only going to respond to one statement.

"If you want to have liberal policies in Dallas County that require a lot of tax dollars, you pay for it."

Almost all of the conservative elected representatives in the Collin County disagree. They are willing to pay for some of these policies whether you label them liberal, conservative or something else.

Certainly there is not unanimous agreement but it seems clear that what counts as conservative and what is supported by self declared conservatives in Collin County are some things you don't support. I think maybe you should direct your complaints at them and not alleged "liberals."

Travis Bush, says:

Britannicus with the Spammicus Maximus..

Scot Walker, says:

"Almost all of the conservative elected representatives in the Collin County disagree. They are willing to pay for some of these policies whether you label them liberal, conservative or something else"

That isn't the case in regards to Parkland Hospital.

In regards to doubling the car registration tax, there are several Republicans who are misguided and believe in spending millions on light rail. I have addressed this in my blog and even advocated for voters to contact Florence Shapiro and tell her your views, since she voted for SB-855.

I am very willing to criticize Republicans who I view as not being fiscally conservative. I've done that in my blog.

Rawlins Gilliland, says:

Thank you Mike Orren for the stats and links. They speak for themselves. And as a Dallas home owner paying property taxes (who also has friends in high places at Parkland with loose lips when I buy a round) more than my ears have burned watching an affluent county with no county hospital to service their own. *Does Neiman Marcus expect Penny's to refund its customers' money when they return merchandise?* This is not an issue to ignore or whitewash. And certainly not in this economy with Dallas' compromised tax base before and after this new reality economy.

Jason Rice, says:

Gotta admit, reading the stats on Parkland, I'm tilting back t'other way. For purely selfish reasons. In the same way I'd rather keep my PISD taxes teaching my kids, I'd heluva lot rather my local taxes support my local needy in the medical arena.

We'll spend it one way or the other for indigent or (as we'll see more of before we see less) unemployed coverage. I'd trust Plano facilities to manage themselves much better.

Just what I need - a new hobby.

Jason Rice, says:

I personally check my bill when it comes and ask why I'm being charged for the pheasant if I didn't order it.

Scot's louder, but it's the same question.

Again with the single mothers... hmm. Throw a puppy in for a real photo op.

Jason Rice, says:

Pithy as always.

Scot Walker, says:

A quick look at the budgets and you'll see many grants from Collin County and the cities in Collin County. Plano alone gives over $500,000 to the following organizations.

AIDS Services of North Texas
 Assist. League of Greater Collin Co.  
 Assistance Center of Collin County
 Avenues Counseling Centers 
 Boys & Girls Club of Collin County 
 CASA of Collin County 
 Collin Co. Care Center/Samaritan Inn 
 Collin Co. Children's Advocacy Ctr. 
 Collin Co. Committee on Aging 
 Collin Intervention to Youth (CITY) 
 Crossroads Family Services of Plano 
 Dental Health Programs 
 Even Start (PISD Foundation) 
 Forrest Outreach Foundation 
 Geriatric Wellness Center 
 God's Food Pantry 
 His Guiding Light Ministries
 Hope's Door (C. C. Woman's Shelter) 
 Housing Crisis Center 
 Journey Home 
 Journey of Hope Grief Support 
 Legal Services of North West Texas  
 Plano Children's Medical Clinic 
 Plano Community Charity 
 Plano International Preschool
 Practical Parent Ed. (PISD Foundation) 
 Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer  
 Turning Point 
 Youth Mentor Network

And there are several sources for healthcare for the uninsured in Collin County. There are four in Plano, one for children in Frisco, one for children in McKinney.

I don't want the government running a hospital. My mother was being treated for breast cancer in 2007 for several months before she died. She was in a government-run hospital, Richardson Regional, for 9 weeks and she also spent time in the private Medical Center of Plano hospital. The differences between the two was shocking. Medical Center of Plano's care was 100X better. We were really disappointed and regretted the fact that mom was sent to Richardson. They made so many mistakes, I could write a whole blog on it. I'll give you one - mom wore the patient bracelet of another patient for several days. The other patient was a man.

The government does a bang-up job with K-12 education, the U.S. Post Office, Amtrak, the Department of Motor Vehicles, the U.S. Passport Office. I don't think government-run healthcare is a good idea.

Just because I don't want the government running something does not mean I don't believe help or reform is needed. I just think the government isn't the organization to handle it.

I think grants and private organizations is the best way to go. You get a lot more bang for your buck and there is less waste, less corruption, better service.

Private organizations like The Red Cross, Goodwill, United Way, The Salvation Army, and many others, do a hell of a lot more good for less money than the government.

Andrew Laska, says:

Richardson Regional is NOT a government run hospital.

It is technically a government entity by the State of Texas but it is run by a board of directors; not the state.

The hospital authority (Richardson Hospital Authority) that eventually morphed into Richardson Regional was established by Richardson according to state law at the time but once established it runs as its own entity.

Its funds come from usual hospital income sources such as managed care contracts, and insurance as well endowments and donations which is just like many private hospitals.

BTW, while not speaking to your specific case, to slam Richardson Regional's Cancer Center as "government" ignorant. It is one of only three "top to bottom" cancer centers in Texas. The other two are MD Anderson in Houston and one in San Antonio whose name I forget.

It's creation was the work of (to use your lingo) "grants and private organizations." That's right. Its primary funding source were funds raised through private means.

Scot Walker, says:

The cancer center you speak of did not open until October of 2008. My mother was there in 2007.

From their Web site: "Richardson Regional Medical Center was established in 1966 after the Richardson City Council formed the Richardson Hospital Authority. That same year, the hospital authority purchased Richardson General Hospital and transformed the 35-bed, for-profit hospital into the first not-for-profit hospital serving the City of Richardson.

Today, Richardson Regional is still owned and operated by the Richardson Hospital Authority, which is a local government unit and a political subdivision of the State of Texas. The hospital authority does not have taxing powers but operates Richardson Regional with income received from the services provided to patients. Instead of distributing profits to shareholders, Richardson Regional reinvests its revenue back into the community to improve health.

The hospital authority also approves all appointments/elections to the Board of Directors of Richardson Regional Medical Center Foundation, Inc., which accepts charitable donations for the purpose of augmenting Richardson Regional facilities, programs and services."

From Biz journal: http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/sto... "Its board is comprised of community members elected by the Richardson City Council and the hospital authority."

This is not a private hospital. It is still a non-profit hospital run by the government. You say it's run by a board. Yeah, it's a board appointed by the city.

What is the motivation to offer quality service, to have the latest in technology? It's government.

I realize my story about my mother is anecdotal and you can take it with a grain of salt. All I know is I would never ever recommend Richardson Regional from my own personal experience.

The Richardson Hospital Authority is in talks with Methodist Health System to operate the hospital with a 20-year agreement.

Scot Walker, says:

Very typical of government: http://www.alacrastore.com/storeconte...

"Standard&amp;Poor's Ratings Services has lowered its rating on Richardson Hospital Authority, Texas' $73.227 million series 2004 bonds and $32.355 million series 1998 bonds, issued for Richardson Regional Medical Center (RRMC), to 'BBB-' from 'BBB'. The outlook is negative. The downgrade and outlook reflect RRMC's: Interim financial results for fiscal 2008, which are substantially weaker than fiscal 2007, with an operating loss of $5.5 million, or a negative 9.2% margin, reducing coverage of maximum annual debt service (MADS) to below 1.0x. Financial projections indicate that the operational loss may increase to $11.0 million by fiscal year-end; More constrained balance sheet, with an unrestricted cash-to-debt ratio at 43% and a high leverage with debt-to-capitalization at 57%; Competitive marketplace, with sizeable..."

Andrew Laska, says:

Thank you for confirming what I said. I didn't say it was a "private hospital."

The issue with financials has nothing to do with it being part of a hospital authority. It has to do with size of the Richardson Regional system, the relation to that size &amp; managed care contracts, and how those insurance companies can leverage them. I conclude that one of the purposes of the Methodist deal is to deal with that by leveraging Methodist's position.

Scot Walker, says:

Andrew,

You stated "Richardson Regional is NOT a government run hospital". It's run by people selected by the Richardson city council (government).

"The hospital authority (Richardson Hospital Authority) that eventually morphed into Richardson Regional was established by Richardson according to state law at the time but once established it runs as its own entity"

The Hospital Authority still exists and oversees Richardson Regional - both of which are run by people selected by politicians. Politicians make political decisions, not good business decisions.

"I conclude that one of the purposes of the Methodist deal is to deal with that by leveraging Methodist's position"

The deal has an option for Methodist to purchase the hospital. It seems the city of Richardson wants to get out of the hospital business.

My main point was about how I don't want Collin County running a hospital. I don't want the government creating a tax either for a hospital, because as we have seen a lot of lately, when the government has a stake in a business, it likes to control and make political decisions, not business decisions, and it screws it up.

Andrew Laska, says:

Those statements I wrote are correct when I wrote them and they still are.

The City of Richardson is not in the hospital business as in running a hospital.

I know personally Richardson city council members, some people on the Richardson Regional Board and foundation board. I can say with no uncertain terms that your speculation about political motives is far from the truth.

Methodist and Richardson Regional are negotiating an operating lease.

Scot Walker, says:

Again, from their own Web site:

"Richardson Regional is still owned and operated by the Richardson Hospital Authority, which is a local government unit and a political subdivision of the State of Texas"

It says Richardson Regional is run by a local government unit and subdivision of the State of Texas. You say it's not run by the government. Their own Web site says it is.

Who elects board members in any government-owned corporation? The government. Who elects the board members of Richardson Regional? Richardson's city council and the Hospital Authority, which is a government entity.

Scot Walker, says:

Yeah, I understand what you think about me personally. Do you actually have an opinion on the issues raised that you want to share with us?

Scot Walker, says:

"This guy NEVER stops with the straw dog ad hominems"

Someone said Collin County needs to build its own hospital network. I responded that I don't want the government to get into the hospital business and I explained why. How is that a straw dog (man)?

BTW, ad hominem is an adjective, not a noun.

Chris Kidd, says:

I did scot, and i'll tell you why. Your beloved Collin County and its plethora of private hospitals for the "good and clean citizens" are sending your uninsured lawn care specialists, roofers and other below the poverty line service employees to my counties hospital, eventhough they're not supposed to when they visit the emergency room. This type of patient moving behavior is therefore causing issues with a health system which is already expericing near crisis-level at present, sometimes with an average of 18-24 hours wait for both non-life and some life-threatening emergencies.

Heres a few solutions:

A)Pony up the cash and build a public hospital in your beloved county that takes care of its citizens only.

B)Get into a co-op share agreement with Denton county similar to option A.

C)Suck it up, grow a pair and pay your share for what it owes to Dallas Co.

Jerry Leeper, says:

Amen, Chrisdanger.

A lot of people from Collin and Denton County, too, without insurance make their way to Parkland for care. My neighbor, a Parkland ER nurse sees it all the time.

Let's face it, the best that will happen to you in 'Southern Oklahoma' when you don't have insurance is that you'll get a tourniquet placed on your profusely bleeding limb and sent home until you can figure out a way to pay for proper treatment.

It might not be the most beautiful hospital surroundings, but the care is probably better at Parkland that in one of those little 'Southern Oklahoma' hospitals. The care itself in Parkland is very good; women with high risk pregnacies and insurance choose to come to Parkland, 'cause Parklands 'seen it all'; they do a heck of a lot more than put bandages on "momma's big little boy's" soccer knee scrape like those Collin Co. hospitals who only know how to stabalise the hard cases and send them into a real hospital in Dallas.

Parkland is where your future doctor is practicing now!

Jerry Leeper, says:

And Chrisdanger, Collin County doesn't just send it's manual laborers. The newly unemployed Collin Countians end up a Parkland, too.

Jason Rice, says:

Hey, when yall finish spittin' on Scot, email me the list of those hospital ERs that turn away everybody. They've gotta be more convenient than the busy one I keep waiting overnight in when my kids have accidents. I'm still kinda new to Plano so I could use your expertise.

Thanks in advance.

Scot Walker, says:

"Your beloved Collin County and its plethora of private hospitals for the "good and clean citizens" are sending your uninsured lawn care specialists, roofers and other below the poverty line service employees to my counties hospital"

You do know it's a state law that hospital emergency rooms cannot turn away patients in immediate need, right?

And I already pointed to several places for free healthcare in Collin County for low income citizens and children.

The idea that Collin County should build and operate a "network of hospitals" is pretty silly, no offense. I respectfully disagree with you on this one, Chris. I think that's like putting a body cast on someone with a paper cut.

I don't think it's the role of the government to provide healthcare and I explained why.

K-12 education? Fail Amtrak? Fail U.S. Post Office? Fail U.S. Passport Office? Fail FEMA? Fail Department of Motor Vehicles? Fail The VA Hospital? Fail

I haven't really heard a compelling case as to why it's the responsibility of the Collin County government to pay for the unpaid bills of individuals.

Parkland is giving free car seats and free diapers to illegal aliens. That's there prerogative to do so, but why should the Collin County government pay for that?

Now the knee-jerk response I'm getting is that I don't care about poor people or sick people, because I don't think it's the role of the government. That assumes the only option is government, which is patently false and ignorant. Again, private organizations do much more than government at a lower cost and at a better quality.

I don't believe a permanent tax is needed because there are some unpaid bills from individuals.

I don't believe the local government is responsible for the unpaid bills of its residents.

If the county leadership disagrees, they pay the bills and we move on. There's no need for a permanent tax. Taxes always go up and they always get diverted to things other than what they were originally sold to the public. Right now, the Texas legislature is passing a bill that will lead to all kinds of new mobility taxes because the current mobility taxes we have are being used for things other than mobility.

Again, the blog I wrote was to refute the idea that Collin County does not contribute money regionally, as "some critics" claim. I've demonstrated it does.

Some people still have issue with the fact that Collin County isn't paying the bills of uninsured. I haven't seen any proof of that, only claims; it's debatable if it's their role to do so; it doesn't refute the fact that Collin County does indeed contribute regionally.

Jason Rice, says:

DC you're so clever.

:: b) wouldn't take a kid to an ER

Thank God you don't reproduce unless by cell division.

Question for moderators: "caulksucker" is ok from the left. Is "cundt" ok as a retort from the right?

Scot Walker, says:

The group See You Next Tuesday is meeting Wednesday...