Tuesday, July 7, 2009
Bandera, new bar on Greenville in Dallas, loves red dirt
DALLAS Bandera is a new bar opening on Greenville Avenue in the space vacated last year by Stout, devoted entirely to the genre of music known as "red dirt."
Manager is Ben Verdooren, formerly of Zymology, the Lower-Greenville gastro-pub that closed prematurely in May.
Owners are Anthony West and Jim Baugh, a pair of entrepreneurs who both always wanted their own bar. West, a former rodeo rider, is the one with the passion for red dirt music, Verdooren says.
"That’s what this bar is all about -- red dirt and Texas blues," Verdooren says. "Bands from that genre, like Cross Canadian Ragweed, Stoney LaRue. Tony says it's not country -- we do not play any country music. It's straight red dirt. Every time a band would come through, either from Oklahoma or Austin, they'd go to Fort Worth and never stop in Dallas. He wanted to make it a point for Red Dirt bands to stop in Dallas."
Named after Bandera, Texas -- "the cowboy capital of the world," Verdooren says -- the bar has a woodsy, cowboy feel. They've kept the rounded bar from Stout but updated the storefront, built a new stage, and added a patio.
The capacity is 200, and they have a tavern permit, so they don't need to have food, but they'll have food brought over from Greenville Avenue Pizza and DiTerra's nearby.
For now, they're just trying to ramp up for a soft opening by July 15, but down the road, they'd like to add a coffeehouse format during the day.
"The area doesn't have any coffee places close by," Verdooren says. "So during the day, it would be a coffee shop, and at night a red dirt blues location."
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LGresident, says:
What joke!!! I give that place 3 months tops. With a failure like Ben from Zymology running it there is no hope for this business.
Whiskey, If you want this place to make it, I advise you to get rid of the dead weight, Ben.
Thank you come again.
Anonymous
4 months, 4 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Travis Bush, says:
Will there be Sunday gage?
Verified
4 months, 4 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
David_Wilson, says:
I think three months is a lofty but unreachable goal. And management - which is not raising confidence very high - is the least of their problems.
The Poor David's space was notorious for its lack of soundproofing. But PD rarely had a loud country/western band blowing out the windows. When they did, it was on a weekday evening and early in the schedule.
The minute the first note comes out of the new speakers, it will resonate into the neighborhood and faster than you can say "Dallas Police Department, what is your emergency?", the noise complaints will follow.
While we need a coffee house badly (Pearl Cup is great, but it's a long walk), the idea of drinking coffee in a place that smells of rancid beer is just so not desirable.
Their 200 patrons will complain about the lack of free parking in the area - all the streets close by are Resident Only on several nights a week. They won't pay 10 dollars for a valet parking space across the street.
The three months they might be open will be like watching a slow and boring train wreck movie - you already know the ending so you just wish it would wrap up already and move to the next scene.
Anonymous
4 months, 4 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
LGresident, says:
Grand Opening and grand closing within the same year. I got money on it. Have your landlord, Andres Properties, free up all the parking and quit charging ridiculous parking prices. They should not be able to lease a building and at the same time lease the parking to a valet company. That is against the law. All the available parking down there should be open to the public. They need to quit having their valet companies scare away customers. The consumers want to spend their money at the businesses not pay a parking attendant.
Anonymous
4 months, 4 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
DC, says:
More colo(u)rs please
Anonymous
4 months, 4 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
BJD1r, says:
It is Stoney, not Sonny, LaRue.
Anonymous
4 months, 4 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Teresa Gubbins, says:
BJD1r, thanks for catching that! i should have checked it, i was so eager to put up the story that i forgot. it's fixed now, appreciate your sharp eye
Staff
4 months, 4 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
GreenGo, says:
I give Bandera 3 months before they start playing Hip Hop. I give Avi 1 Week before he calls in a noise complaint.
Anonymous
4 months, 4 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
James Scott, says:
1 Week GreenGo? I'm taking the under on that one.
Verified
4 months, 4 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
Betting on my calling in the first noise complaint is a sucker bet, I win.
Since I do not live close enough to hear the noise in my front yard (god, I hope so), then there is no legal justification for me to make the call.
But there are plenty of other homeowners closer to this location who are already exercising their dialing fingers (you pick the finger) to be ready to call in the noise.
As Mr. Wilson noted earlier, this location has NO soundproofing on the walls, so it's gonna be loud and deep.
Caveat - If the DPD walk past the bar and either here the noise or see the windows vibrating, they can act independently and issue a noise citation. This is really important in the past few months - with the rush to go outside and smoke, more open doors mean more noise issues. A few bars (eg Service Bar) have installed second doors inside their entryway and this has reduced the noise.
As to the survival of this bar - I give it 90 days before they start going delinquent on their liquor bills, and be closed in 120 days. This has nothing to do with the style or business plan (ha-ha-ha I made myself laugh at that one).
The lack of parking is gonna be the death knell for these guys. All the streets behind this location have RPO six days a week. From Sunday to Wednesday, the valets won't bother working the parking lots just to cover one bar and that means free parking.
But on Thursday, Friday and Saturday, the valets will control every parking lot in the area - and that is $10 a slot after 10pm. Music fans don't want to pay $10 for a parking space.
In essence, they will have some business during the week, but come the weekends, it's not gonna happen.
This will be fun to watch...
Verified
4 months, 4 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Scott Miller, says:
You should be so proud of yourself.
Verified
4 months, 4 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ Scott
Yes, I am proud of not only my efforts to protect the neighborhood's Quality of Life.
I am even prouder of the nearly 400 neighbors who signed petitions to bring Resident Parking Only to this area.
There are 25 RPO zones in Dallas - and 18 of them are in the Lower Greenville area.
That says it all right there!
Verified
4 months, 4 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
LGresident, says:
Who cares what Avi has to say anyways?
Whiskey,
All you have to do is file a restraining order on Avi and he cannot come within certain feet from your establishment.
Anonymous
4 months, 4 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ LGresident
I don't know who this WHISKEY guy is you are giving legal advice to, but in regards to a restraining order...
Don't you think someone would have tried this (stupid as can be) idea years ago???
But how do you propose to keep anyone from walking on a public sidewalk in front of a business just because they are scared I might write something nasty about them.
If they found a sober lawyer to take the case on, they have absolutely no prior history of any damages real or imagined. The judge would throw them out of court and I would get treble damages because it was a frivolous lawsuit. By the time it was over, I would own this so-called red-dirt music hall.
It's not like I will post anything about them on my website - not only is it a waste of electrons but why should I promote them?
Instead, let's try something really classy - maybe they can sue to keep me writing about them after they close? No, that would be prior restraint.
How about following me around with a camera? No, that would take too long and be really boring.
How about just watching me whenever I am on Lower Greenville? Nope, they are already doing that and it's very boring.
How about taking my DSL service away? Nope, it's not their property.
Maybe they can sue any neighbor who complains about their loud music? No, that's way too expensive, and since they claim to be a neighborhood bar, just bad public relations.
I know what they can do! Instead of worrying about what I am going to do, why don't they worry about what THEY are going to do?
Yeah, that's the ticket!
Verified
4 months, 4 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
Sounds like a really friendly neighborhood. I hope it succeeds cause it sounds like the neighborhood is full of crybabies.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ Tex0322
We are NOT a neighborhood of crybabies, not by any stretch of the imagination.
The bar owners would have you imagine that four different neighborhood associations have just decided to put the bars out of business.
In fact, we want a variety of businesses here - restaurants, music, retail, etc.
But not at the expense of our Quality of Life - quiet streets, no trash, no noisy drunks waking us up at 2am.
The residential streets were not put on this earth to make up for the lack of any parking on Lower Greenville's $10 and up valet parking lots. Thanks to RPO, the streets do belong to the neighborhood residents and we decided it's time for you to boot-scoot you and your car somewhere else.
You can park in the neighborhood on non-RPO streets, however, if you don't mind walking three blocks to the bars. Of course, when you are drunk and walking back, that three blocks is gonna feel like ten.
Thankfully our crime rate since RPO was put in has dropped 50% - makes it safer for walking those three blocks.
Enjoy the show, and y'all come back now, ya'hear???
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Chris Kidd, says:
Alot of this is urban planning. While I disagree w/ Avi, I think its a good thing to have a mix of residential/commercial/entertainment. Look at South Congress in Austin, similar setup to greenville and its always packed. Plus, they don't have people like Avi telling property owners/lessees how to run their businesses. Maybe I'll move back to Austin, as it seem to be a better place to raise kids anyways and live a decent life.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Scott Doyle, says:
tex, they simply need to deflect from much deeper issues...like the urge to <a href="http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2009/jun/01/greenville-avenue-crusader-avi-adelman-cited-misde/">push around defenseless women</a>.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
I pray that this place makes it. What we need is to get bar patrons to organize and fight these people trying to push the bars out. They might deny that that is what they are trying to do but it is exactly what they want to do. They don't want to have a bar in sight. And yes Avi, you are a neighborhood full of little crybabies.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Pavel Lishin, says:
I like the idea of a coffee shop by day, bar by night. If there was a place like that near me, it would be a pretty great place to work from on Fridays. Caffeinate myself in the morning, drunkate myself in the evening.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ ChrisDanger
Yes, we want a mix of residential/commercial/entertainment uses. But current zoning on Lowest Greenville (Community Retail Zoning) prohibits bars except with Non-Conforming Uses (Bandera's) or other approvals from long ago (Service Bar, Old Crow, for example). Most of the bars are really zoned restaurants, but try to call popcorn food and have no kitchens.
The problem with this bar is not the use since it's legal (non-conforming per City), but the lack of soundproofing and parking. Where are 150 - 200 people (on a good night) going to park?? What about the residents nearby?
@ Tex0322
See above, plus...
Organizing bar patrons is worse than herding cats. There are only two categories of people whose opinions are considered, documents accepted, etc at City Hall - the business property owners and the residential property owners.
In short, if you don't live in the area, or own a business in the area, no one cares that you think this (fill in the business concept) is a good idea. You go home every night, we live here and have to deal with the changes forever.
And you may call us crybabies, but so far, we own 18 streets, have stopped three (four?) zoning changes, and pretty much impact what happens in the area. Bottom line - If you can't park on my street, you can't party on Lower Greenville unless you don't mind paying $10 and up for valet parking.
@ Pavel
Spellcheck?? Drunkinate???
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
I don't mind paying for parking. Never have. Never will. I don't drive to bars though. That's irresponsible. I take a cab so no problems there. And I will once again call you a crybaby, because that is what you are among other things.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Pavel Lishin, says:
It's a word in <i>my</i> dictionary.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Travis Bush, says:
Whoever invoked Porky's name should be shot!
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
alexander troup, says:
I shot the sheriff, but I didn't shot the deputy.....A/T...No invoking here...
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
allen78704, says:
I've never understood why people wanna move to a "happening, hip, lively part of town"...and then bitch about noise, traffic, and parking.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Pavel Lishin, says:
Well, Avi has apparently been living there since long before it became a bar scene. So it's not like he moved in next to a bar and started complaining, like two people who used to be on this site.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
jtmbls, says:
So Pavel, did you ever have your date night with our local superhero?
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ Allen78704
Mr Lishin is correct. I have been on Lower Greenville for 30 years, 21 of them in a house just 150 feet from the street.
When I moved here, Dodie's was a laundromat.
Oh, to see that happen again.
But I digress. We are not asking for the bars to go away (okay, maybe one or two). If they were legal, they would be operating as the restaurants they claim to be. But popcorn in a bag does not count as a served food.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
What you want is for the bars to go away. I don't know why you won't admit that. Your whole movement is determined to remove them from this area. I don't know why you can't just man up and admit it.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ Tex0322
Okay, you got me. I admit it (sound of shuffling feet on the floor).
I will stand up and say it loud and clear so you can hear anywhere on the interweb...
I want the illegal, out of compliance BARS - especially those claiming to be RESTAURANTS on their Certificates of Occupancy, but have no kitchen or food service facilities - to just go away.
And while we are at it, I want the City of Dallas to send in dozens of code enforcement inspectors who will write bagillions of tickets on each one of these illegal operations.
(Sheesh, talk about a frigging fantasy!)
I feel so much better now.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Scott Doyle, says:
Nice facade. I fail to see how it's any concern of yours whether bars have proper certs of occupancy, Avi - you're not a competing business and you don't work for the city.
Your panties, they be wadded.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ Scott
Okay, let's put the boot on the other paw.
You live on a residential street. One of your neighbors operates a business - for example, lamp repair - out of his house.
Everyday, the street is full of cars. They belong to his workers (it's a big shop), his customers, UPS trucks, delivery trucks, and don't forget the noise too from the metal grinding.
And he works 18 hours a day.
Now, you sit at home (when you are not partying) and you have a choice.
You can sit back and take it, while chewing on your panties.
Or you can call the City to ask them to enforce every damn law they can come up with for operating an illegal business in a residential area.
It's called Zoning, which organizes a city into little sane squares. It keeps factories away from restaurants and car repair shops away from hospitals.
And within Zoning, it keeps a balance of operations. So you find lots of stores in one area, but not a taxidermy store.
On Lower Greenville, the Zoning is Community-Retail. CR allows restaurants, and bars with special exceptions and permits.
In this case, Bandera's has a non-conforming use from the time it was a Poor David's. It's legal and no one disputes it (we fought the NCU renewal but lost on a technicality, but hey).
In the case of other so-called restaurants, they have no kitchen, no food service, and no tables. They are not restaurants, they are bars.
And by default, they are not allowed to operate here.
The City knows it, you know it and I know it.
The City chooses to ignore it, due to budgets or legal issues.
You choose to support it.
I choose to make this an issue until the City finally grows a set of testicles (sadly, not in the next budget) and shuts them down.
In Arlington, the City pulls the electric meter on illegal business ops. Dallas has done that just once - on Lower Greenville in fact. It will sadly never happen again in my lifetime.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Scott Doyle, says:
Car activity became a piss-poor excuse as soon as RPOs were passed. Again, you're not a business and clearly don't enforce code. Incessant bitchiness appears to be all you hold onto, doubt you've had a good time in years.
You must live a very sad life.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Travis Bush, says:
Scott..why even bother..ever article that mentions Greenville Ave. is going to get crapped on by porky and his incessant D-Bag crusade. Hopefully others will simply refrain from saying his name and he will simply stay away..
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Jesus Valadez, says:
Avi Adelman Avi Adelman Avi Adelman
Damn, didn't work.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Travis Bush, says:
Jesus..ya gotta be in the bathroom of the Ships Lounge for it to work...
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
alexander troup, says:
Greenville Ave, what Deep Elm should of done........all of these old and new complex communities...then again...Dallas land of the car,road's, gas station, hamburger stands......No mountain's, rivers, or river falls,forest,...and a lot of things, it is a .....drive up and get out and go in and leave....A/T, ..On to work.....
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
Heeeeeeeeeee's baaaaaaaaaaaack!
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
I hope bars and businesses keep annoying this guy. I will make it a point to support these businesses in anyway that I can. He obviously has a lot of free time on his hands. And you are still a crybaby.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
The bars could not organize a group fart if you gave them the raw jalapenos and instructions.
I am not the least of their problems, but they have no way of stopping me or others who are going to watch them drop off the face of the earth as their phony business operations are slowly exposed.
They are too busy worrying about other problems - like TABC, the lack of free parking in the neighborhoods, expensive valet parking, dozens of police officers on Lower Greenville watching them every Friday and Saturday evening, and being ripped of by their own staff every time a bottle is tipped.
When they signed documents at City Hall claiming to be restaurants, they put themselves in a legal deathtrap that will soon - we hope - come back and consume them.
Your support - buying a beer or two - is not going to make a difference.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
James Scott, says:
So Avi, out of curiosity, what do you see as the type of business that would be successful and welcome in that area you are mentioning?...or do you see it as an entire area that should should just wither and die?
It seems that if there was a different business model that someone could follow to be welcomed into the neighborhood by the actual people living there, that it would have been tried by now. Any business is going to face the same problems, specifically lack of conveniently accessible free parking. So I don't understand this approach to solving the problem (i.e., torches/pitchforks every time a new tenant moves in).
I know that in the long run this probably has more to do with the property owners not really caring about what kinds of businesses inhabit their buildings, just that checks come in (for a few months at least, until they go out of business). I just think that expecting different results when everyone involved keeps doing the exactly the same thing is a waste of productivity (on multiple levels).
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ James Scott
There IS plenty of free parking. RPO is an evening program only. Therefore, daytime retail businesses would have no trouble finding sufficient parking spaces for their customers (god knows they will pay through the nose, so the property owners generate income twice and kick them out at 6pm)
The torches / pitchforks only come out when a business operates illegally. In this case, Banderas is legal since it has an NCU. The track record of its manager is why it will fail.
As to the other so-called restaurants that are really bars, their days are very numbered. $10 parking spaces and RPO do not a happy patron make. And there are only so many hoochie-mamas and gangbangers you can serve before the doors close.
The property owners DO NOT CARE what they have in their spaces, as long as they collect rent and a piece of the profit (eg a portion of liquor sales). Since a bar makes more money than a bookstore, guess who gets the building. And as long as bars keep churning through the locations, the bookstore will never be here.
The two key property owners keep talking about "walkable urban environments" where everything you need to live and shop is within a six block radius.
Under this scenario, only alcoholics are getting everything they want, since the restaurants on the Lowest Greenville side are few and far between. One so-called restaurant finally stopped trying to lie and got rid of all its tables so it could be a bar.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
He is obviously trying to make up for some other shortcoming in his life. He has an increased sense of self importance which he really isn't. I could point to a small college town in Texas where the residents of the town tried to band together to get rid of alcohol all together and well, lets just say a bunch of us bar patrons started a movement that put a stop to that. You say it can't happen because you have a false sense of reality. Also your idea that the only people who go to bars are alcoholics is about as retarded as your movement is.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ Tex0322
I don't know what 'movement' you are talking about. The bottom line is that these so-called bars are operating illegally and need to be closed down. There is no outright opposition to LEGAL bars.
As to your amateur psychology examination, trust me you are so very very off.
Let me ask you a question, if you don't mind??
Where do you live?
If the answer is Lower Greenville or anywhere in Dallas for that matter, then you have a right to call your council rep and tell him/her you think these so-called bars should be allowed to operate. But be prepared to show proof that you actually own a property in the Lower Greenville area before your opinion is taken seriously (as in, they put you on the YES list).
If you do not live in Dallas, no one cares what you think. You do not own property near here, you do not pay taxes, and you do not vote on Dallas issues. You have a right to your opinion, and you have a right to express it.
But bottom line - It's all noise.
And since it's mostly non-residents who support the so-called bars, it's an annoying but ignored noise comparable to that of gnats.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
I live in Dallas and I'll leave it at that. We'll see what happens. You have just inspired me. I have some free time and money I'm willing to throw at this.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ Tex0322
Money won't solve the problem.
The bars have some money, the property owners have more. And they are losing the battle.
And since it looks like you don't live close by (as in the same council district), you will have to work with your council member.
And if you think that 13 other council members (Ms. Medrano represents part of Lower Greenville) are going to give a damn about our problems, you are wrong. They will politely listen to you, shake their head and say, well we appreciate your interest, but that's out of our district, son.
But they will listen to you since you are a resident and probably vote too.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
We shall see. You keep crying over there and keep building up that self importance.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
OMIGOD, do you really think you and your money can actually make a difference?
Before you spend anything to support illegal bars, why not come out here on a Saturday night and watch the human garbage of hoochie-mama's and gangbangers walking down the street. The best place to stand is by the DPD command post (yeah, we got our own little command post, so you know how safe it is) at Greenville and Alta.
In fact, we saw some white folks out here just last night - they looked really scared and made sure they got out fast.
Ooops, a few parked at the Taco Cabana and came back to find their cars towed away. Guess they did not care to read the warning signs?
Or take a look at the weekly police reports sent to neighborhood associations to see the latest count of drunks and illegal parking in the neighborhood -
http://www.belmontna.org/html/weeklyr...
If you want to support bars that are illegal, go ahead and throw your money at them. They will gladly accept it and then completely ignore you.
If you want to stop the neighborhood complaints, then stop the illegal activities. Level the playing field and get rid of the illegal bars, and it might be a nicer place to live.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
Wah. I wish I could say what I really thought but I won't in a public forum. Like I said, we will see. You make it sound like you don't mind "legal" bars to be in your neighborhood, but that is clearly not the fact. That is your front that you put up. If you could wave a magic wand and make all bars go away permanently from your neighborhood overnight you would do that and you know it. Even the legal ones.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
Okay let's say it clearly -
If a bar is legal - and there are some here, like Service Bar and Old Crow - then it is not an issue (except when its patrons get listed on the public arrests reports).
But the majority of the so-called restaurants are really operating as bars - they have no kitchens and no food service.
It's a no-brainer, but the City has yet to figure out how to close down any kind of illegal business without the City Attorney's butt cheeks tightening up.
Can you name any illegal 'massage house' the city shut down?? Neither can I, but when they did, it usually takes six months to process the paperwork.
This area is zoned Community Retail, which means a mix of restaurants, personal service shops and even a bar or two.
If you have enough money to change the zoning en masse, I can give you the names of the property owners (richer than all get out on their profits from the bar sales) who have not been able to do that in ten years.
Like I said, this is gonna be fun to watch.
If you want to take the tour, my email address is avi@barkingdogs.org.
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Scott Doyle, says:
If you want to take the tour
Do you charge to include assault on a woman, or is that an any given Sunday ordeal?
Verified
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Mike Orren, says:
I ask this question every 1.37 years, and someone always provides a reasonable answer that I always forget:
Why hasn't anyone built a multilevel parking garage down there? Buck-a-car?
By the way, I find the parking down there reasonable when you're not necessarily in for a long night of boozing. Before a Granada show a couple weeks back, we went to Libertine for a quick dinner. When their lot was full and we had to go to the pay lot across the street, I was prepared to wail and gnash teeth over the inconvenience. But, it was free until well past the dinner hour, and the parking guy was super-nice. Left me with nothing to bitch about...
Staff
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ Mike
About six or seven years ago, the property owners wanted to build a parking lot on the space behind Arcadia (flatten now-closed Torch, reaching all the way down to the Community Theatre).
This would have required a major zoning change, so the neighbors were brought into the discussion early (unlike today when they admit at zoning hearings they don't care what the neighbors think).
Two issues came up -
The parking lot was going to look like (as I can best remember) the back end of the parking lot behind the Plaza of the Americas complex at Pearl Street (now the W hotel??). Big tall and wide open - no walls. So the honking and squealing would be heard all over the neighborhood since there is nothing tall enough to block the noise in the area.
Every space would be charged on. No freebies, no comps. What happened to the free and required parking? God knows.
Now remember this is way before RPO ripped a new hole in the fabric of the Lower Greenville universe - there were only three or four RPO streets in the area.
The neighborhood residents said, in summary - You can charge all you want for the spaces, you can manage the lot anyway you want. But while you are at it, the neighborhood is going to go either completely RPO for the streets that will pay for it, or NO PARKING 24/7 (which is free when enough residents sign the petition).
The property owners started squawking and said, Oh no, we can't have that. We need the parking lot AND the streets in order to have enough spaces for all the people we expect to be on Lower Greenville each night.
At that point, the neighbors said, So, let's see, in effect you want to double the parking, double the noise, and take away our streets.
The property owners shook their heads Yes so hard they looked like bobblehead dolls.
After about 30 seconds, the neighborhood residents said, Nope, we are not going to support this zoning change, and left the meeting.
And they all lived sort of unhappily ever after, until after the Arcadia burned down, and the Big Bad Dog got the theatre sign, sold it for $10,000 and paid for RPO all over the east side of Lower Greenville (and helped get a few more on the west side).
The end - in more ways than you can imagine!
(Re your parking experience - it's supposed to be free parking until 10pm, but that is still illegal. Show us the free and required clear parking spaces, and I'll show you an uncomplimentary valet. Your experience is possible to repeat, but don't hold your breath.)
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
James Scott, says:
oy vey, can we bring out the deceased equine on this one now?
Avi - while I don't condone the "in your face, take it or go to h*LL, all others suck-it approach", I can't help but respect your attention to detail.
I wish there was some equilibrium that could be attained down there, but it seems like until the owners attend some corporate social responsibility classes (haha), we're all gonna be @#$ out of luck.
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
Avi you should answer Scotts question.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ James Scott
Thank you for the comment on details. We in the neighborhood have a long and detailed memory. Thank god for computer files.
@ Tex0322 It's all in the details. And the details are none of your business.
@ Mike Cue the horse! I will have a Bandera story on my website in a few days, and then you can start the pissing match again.
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
@AviAdelman Lots to hide huh
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ Tex0322
Not a damn thing to hide. Just very simply none of your business, just as it's none of my business how much money you intend to spend to save the Lowest Greenville bars from their evil residential neighbors.
Yeah, like that's gonna happen.
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
A real man wouldn't be trying to hide from it.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Scott Doyle, says:
Just like a real man who meddles in other people's business but can't publicize his own illegal doings?
Wasn't that how some Greek dude rolled, too?
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ Scott Doyle
I am so sorry, but where are my so-called 'illegal doings'?
Do you have evidence of a crime committed by me and of which I was convicted?
If you do, please - share it with the group.
If not, why don't you crawl back into your dirty litter box??
(God, I feel so much better)
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
Looking forward to Scotts response. I only know about allegations I've read about so I don't bring them up.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
ch0, says:
On behalf of the "human garbage of hoochie-mama's and gangbangers," I say, touché. We are not amused.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Pavel Lishin, says:
None of the allegations made against Avi have come to anything so far, and at this point I'm getting bored of even seeing this debate go on and on.
Continue flinging poo.
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Rawlins Gilliland, says:
Probably 97.9% of those in the Dallas area have never been to Lower Greenville. And the lion's share probably have no idea where or even 'what' it is anymore than they have a knowledge of... or interest in... mixed use business neighborhood issues in Guam.
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Rick Yost, says:
In the '70s I stayed in several different spots up and down Lower Greenville Av. It was a very cool place to hang out- a real artistic community. Even a broke, struggling musician used to be able to afford to live there. Not anymore.
So, what if all the unsavory bars were to disappear? What would happen to the property values of all those 'sensitive' residents? Would the up-dated, Tudor styled, faux stucco, ostentatious display of landscaping, Lexus, and BMWs keep the prices up if there was no reason for the masses to gather there? ...biting the hand that feeds...
I'm just sayin'.
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ Rick Yost
Your statement has a false premise - that there is a relationship between the success of the bars and the prosperity of the neighborhoods.
False.
How many of the bar owners actually live in the area. Just one that I know of. They - and their money - go home to Richardson, McKinney or Duncanville.
Our values are in decline for lots of reasons, very few of which have to do with the bars. But thanks to RPO, our Quality of Life has immensely improved and our streets are safer too.
There are 1,500 homes in the area east of the bars to Skillman (south of Belmont). So you really think my 90-year friend spends her days thanking the bars for being here. Nah, she's too busy taking care of the grandchildren, and she knows she will outlive many of the bar operations anyways.
In fact, your statement should be reversed.
There are 100+ new residential developments ($250K and up) on the east side of Greenville. Do you really think all the developers said, I am going to build for drinking families - the steps will be padded and the floors hosable.
No, they want to see positive development. Urban walkable communities - where everything you need to live and work - is within walking distance. And that means not bars only, but retail of all flavors. Bars are the only business down here save for a few struggling restaurants being choked by their neighbors scummy patrons.
We are not anti-bar. Just level the playing field - close down all the illegally operating bars and see how long the landlords wait until they get positive retail development in here.
Yeah, I am dreaming again.
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Pavel Lishin, says:
It would actually be pretty great if more stores opened up down there and it became a walkable neighborhood.
Those can co-exist with bars, you know.
Hell, maybe even drinkers would start moving to the area, and would have the added incentive of keeping their home clean and safe.
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
ch0, says:
Scummy!
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Scott Doyle, says:
Do you have evidence of a crime committed by me and of which I was convicted?
Am I a prosecutor over here? Simply call 'em like I <a href="http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2009/jun/01/greenville-avenue-crusader-avi-adelman-cited-misde/#c53790">see 'em on PN</a>.
If you were acquitted I'm fairly sure you'd have lobbied for removal of the thread by now. Either way, I've enjoyed the stinkbait - feel free to dispel police accusations propagated here on the site with something I'll believe.
Regardless, it's on the city if nobody checks validity of occupancy certs when issuing. Just like yourself, cert-holders alleged of illegal activity probably prefer to keep their business with the city...between them and the city. You obviously don't have the class to recognize that.
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ Scott Doyle
I think you just found a way for the City to save about $8 million in the upcoming budget debacle (sp?) - shut down the 3-1-1 system. Use the money for something else, like DPD salaries.
Using your logic, there is no need for John Q. Public to call and file complaints against an illegal anything since it's none of our business.
Someone operating a lead smelter down the street from you? Hey, they have a permit for - well, you can't ask now - so leave them alone.
Someone painting cars for money in their backyard and the odors bothering you? Too bad, he's in his own house and it's not your business, so just stay inside and shut up.
Someone wants to build a whorehouse down the block near the DART station?? Sorry, neighborhood associations are not allowed to talk about zoning issues, and he has more money than they do anyways.
You get the point?? I doubt it.
The city's Building Inspectors (the people who handle permits) rarely check CO applications on site except for as-they-are-building-it inspections. For the most part, a permit is a promise to be good and build what you say you are building. And many of these businesses promised to be restaurants and even built kitchens.
But six months later, they fired the cook and threw out the equipment. And now it's on Code Compliance to prove it's a bar under another set of rules.
We are a nation of laws and regulations. Like them or not. If you don't like them, change them. But don't expect others to ignore violations just because you like bars or whorehouses.
And in both cases, all the records are open for anyone who takes the time to file an Open Records Request. You would be amazed at the stuff we come across. Try it.
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Scott Doyle, says:
Not at all implying we shouldn't have transparency in zoning, simply saying you take concerns to the city and leave it at that. Public smear campaign is childish, imo, and people tend to associate that approach with shifty politics...which nobody cares for.
Not to mention (wait, I did mention it!) RPO took care of your only valid concern here. Past that you're flat-out bitching.
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
He is a crybaby.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ Scott Doyle
What smear campaign???
If you think that 'taking concerns to the city and leaving it at that' (not sic) is the only answer, then you are mistaken.
Actually, no, you are correct. We both know that the City is incapable of fixing things here.
So in your mind, filing a complaint guarantees it will never be fixed.
But on my side, filing a complaint then posting it online, then showing photos, then posting video, then writing about it, tends to hasten the issue being resolved.
Under your logic, half the stories on the evening newscast would never get aired once the complaint is filed.
Do you really think the North Texas Tollway folks would be installing hundreds of new WRONG WAY signs if News8 had not been all over their butts about wrong way drivers and the lack of the tools (already out there in Houston) to prevent these needless deaths???
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
Thanks for the link Scott. Very interesting read about Mr. Adelman. Interesting indeed.
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Russ Vandeveerdonk, says:
On a slow news day, Avi Adelman gets his stories heard all over the local TV and RADIO,.....Avi never ceases to amaze me. When does he rest? How can that be a happy life? There is so much more to do in this short life Avi. I like you man and what you stand for, but are you happy?
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Scott Doyle, says:
City isn't incapable, they simply have better things to do - you clearly don't. If you're going to smear anybody and expect results, best to go after the city for not upholding their code rather than the businesses operating within slack available.
Fairly sure NTTA is motivated more by potential litigation than the evening news.
Just sayin', from an outsider's perspective you appear to be going about this all wrong. Can't imagine your brow-beating approach to PR is attracting quality neighbors in your 'hood...maybe the facade is because you want neighbors just like you? shudder
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
After nearly 80 posts here, I am ready to move on... I have some more interesting stories to post shortly.
That said, let me close with this...
The neighborhood will have the last laugh. We will watch these illegal bars go away, and stand on the street throwing beads at the moving vans.
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
tex0322, says:
Big tough crybaby.
Anonymous
4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Rick Yost, says:
I've learned a lot in my life by being wrong. (I guess it's the way I roll)
It has always been my impression that the latest real estate boon to the Lower Greenville/'M' Streets area had a lot to do with the 'Lower Greenville Scene'.
Not that folks buying homes there came to party, but a large percentage of the newest residents had either partied there before or knew friends who had. The area supplies both the adult perks while raising the 2.5 kids, yet allows them to feel close to their youth and remain in touch with their college days. Even a less than savvy buyer wouldn't miss the party area they were moving to.
Yes, that's just by impression.
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4 months, 3 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
TRGold, says:
Interesting thread this one is. I'm not an avid bar crawler, but I do enjoy an occasional night on LG. Parking doesn't bother me, I like walking so I park up the road where nobody cares and walk wherever I wish to go. I have never been bothered by any of the so-called 'hoochie mamas or gangbangers'; in fact, have never seen them. I have however, seen residents from both sides of Greenville walking into the same establishments I was heading for.
Question for the Avi guy. If you live too far from the bars for the noise to bother you, and you have RPO to protect your street and property, why are you still bothering the businesses and patrons of LG? By your own admission above, your complaints about noise would go unheeded. It seems to me you are seeking agitation and confrontation with your voyeuristic crusade. In legal terms this is known as public disturbance. If the street isn't bothering you, personally anymore, let the residents who live closer and are bothered by it nut up and speak for themselves.
For the people who are bitching about RPO's and foolish Robin Hood wannabe's with video equipment, I say, adapt, improvise, overcome. If you dont want to pay to park, carpool, (or park farther away and walk, perish the thought). You lost this round of the fight move on. If Avi and his antics bother you, ignore him. Walk around him, cross the street, avoid him. If he follows you with his camera, public property or not, that is harassment and is illegal. If he persists in his attempts to film you, continue to avoid him, if he touches you, purposely or incidentally, it is assault on his part. His own video will show clearly you were trying to evade his camera. He'll have not a leg to stand on.
It seems if you all are serious about diminishing Avi's efforts you've got to be smarter than he is (shouldn't take much) and use his own eagerness against him.
Anonymous
4 months, 2 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
jtmbls, says:
TR - I would like to take this moment to tell you how very much I adore you and welcome you to Peg.
But don't let that scare you away! ;)
Anonymous
4 months, 2 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
With friends like JTMBLS, who needs enemies???
@ TRGold
1 - This is not an individual issue (eg me only), a neighborhoods issue. Under your logic, it should not matter to me that a bar (cough cough) is CO'd as a restaurant, but it does impact my community.
I do not call in noise complaints unless they impact my house. But if I am on the street and a neighbor calls me about the noise, I have no problem getting some video to supplement his call to 911.
It's called 'coordinated efforts.' Many of the residents all have neat little roles to deal with and jobs to do. Mine is being out there with a camera. The rest - well, I will leave that to your imagination.
As to your harassment theory, you can blow that crap out of the pool. As long as you and I (or even just me if you in a patio) are on public right of way I cannot be stopped from rolling tape. I can't be cited for trespassing if I don't go in the patio. There is no loitering law on the books in Texas (or Dallas). Evading a camera does not mean I am trying to harass you.
Under your theory, Mike Wallace would never have developed his cool in-your-face reputation.
If you don't like the camera, don't look at it. Don't talk back, and don't answer questions.
Sadly, this is a diversion. If you look at my videos, there are no man-on-street-interviews. They are simply reality of the situation as some scummy gang-banger or his hoochie-mama is being arrested. You almost never ever hear me speak. You never hear me ask questions. All I do is stand there and roll tape.
Your problem is that you don't like what I see because it upsets your partyzone mentality, and god knows we can't have that can we. So you come up with feeble ideas on how to stop me, and not how stop the problems I document.
Welcome to the blog, but at least make a basic effort to post the correct information.
Not that your comments are new - many others have posted this line of text, hoping that it would dissuade me from being out there, or better. In fact, it is simply a way of trying to move the limelight off the issues and websites, in the hopes that illegal or improper activities can flourish again.
Not gonna happen.
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4 months, 2 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
TRGold, says:
@Avi,
You misunderstand me. I'm not interested in stopping you from doing what you're doing. I'm more interested in people finding common ground. If you took the time to read what I wrote, the first thing you should have seen is that I told people to just avoid you if they dont like your video.
I also do not have a 'partyzone' mentality. I've lived in Dallas for 5 years and have gone to Lower Greenville twice. I just think you could all come together and figure out a workable solution, acceptable to all parties involved.
Anonymous
4 months, 2 weeks agoLink to this comment | Suggest removal
Avi Adelman, says:
@ TRGold
We tried the common ground approach with bar and property owners, for years, and it did not work.
The only solution is the one they want - let the illegal bars continue to operate, tell the police to stop arresting their patrons, tell the neighbors to stop complaining about the noise, and by the way, revoke all the RPO so there is free parking in the neighborhood for their patrons.
It ain't gonna happen.
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