javascript

• 1 year, 6 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Well... that all seems pretty clear.

  My apologies for entering the "secret club." I had an initial interest because I was in Dallas for the premiere screening of Expelled. I was invited by a friend involved with the local event. That's where I first saw John and his female partner sitting in on the press conference. I leaned over to my friend that day and said: "I can tell from that guys attitude walking in that he's already decided how he will review this film." And I was correct. Not uncommon. Most of us have preconceived notions about things that skew our perspectives. But none the less, it's clear I have more than worn out my welcome here... Clearly this thread only welcomes one perspective. Somewhat clarifying the point of the Expelled movie.

  Thanks to Joshua for welcoming another perspective, to Andrew for helping me adjust my temperament and to Rick who while we differ completely in our views, didn't make me feel like an "annoying, obnoxious, troll."

  God bless you Dallas! Ciao.

• 1 year, 6 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  xdavidwattsx... I'm not sure what your problem is but the numbers of posts on this blog are miniscule in comparison to thousands of blogs currently debating this very same subject on the net. Check out the Expelled web site blog catalogue where many of the topics went into the thousands of posts... Are we keeping you from a pressing engagement or something? Are you being forced to read what the "trolls" are saying?

• 1 year, 6 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Excellent points Josua... And the quotes strongly support your perspective so no one can accuse you of not having a source.

  C.S. Lewis is a favorite author of mine. I'd love to see the likes of Dawkins debate with Mr. Lewis. Wouldn't that have been entertaining?

• 1 year, 6 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  kps... It doesn't sound like you're seeing the film will alter your opinion on the subject matter much. You sound pretty sure of what to expect already... Simply by hearsay. I'm betting there's little chance you'll allow anything to persuade your hard core stand on the issue...

  I have a few questions for you though. How does injecting an atheistic world view into the science classroom, make you feel better about our future doctors, nurses and others who will "effect your well-being." Why don't you consider teaching evolution with an Atheistic agenda "watered down?" By their own admission, 3 of the leading professors in the Film credit their Darwinian Evolution education for their "religious de-conversions." How does that fall under the category of science? What does that have to do with anything even remotely involving the sciences? Why are you and others so threatened by the concept of ID that is only an alternate "theory" regarding life's origin, but you don't seem the least bit concerned with professors of our universities who describe in detail their visions for a religion-free society and promote their non-scientific views quite publicly? Not only do they publicly admit their agenda, they ruthlessly set out to destroy religion by tainting the minds of our youth via their blog sites, books, interviews and youTube videos... Positioning Atheism as cool and modern, contrasted by their view of religion or ID as a joke and outdated, uneducated nonsense. These people are using any means possible to spread their Atheistic propaganda under the "guise" of SCIENCE. Ruthlessly attacking anyone who dares to stand up to them. Labeling all who disagree with them as "insane, stupid or ignorant." You call that science? You think that's "smart?"

• 1 year, 6 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Susan, Joshua's description is accurate without a doubt. I think the film has more than one message though. Freedom of speech definitely is raised when members of the scientific community are outwardly ridiculed or "punished" if they question or challenge the status quo. There's even a journalist in the movie who describes the hate mail she and her paper received when she just wrote an article about a scientist speculating on ID. That's an attack of her free speech rights, wouldn't you say? The list goes on extensively in the movie but you get my point.

  The point I was referring to mostly and the one I think should be alarming to us all is the obvious influence the Atheistic "world view plays" in shaping science today. This should be every bit as alarming to you as if the Pope were influencing science. Neither one belong in science but it would be extremely naive to suggest Atheism is not an influence.

  In the movie you hear Atheist PZ Myers speak of that utopian world without religion. You hear Atheist Richard Dawkins read from his book "The God Dilusion," a collection of the most demonstrable words in the English language, describing in his personal perspective the Judeo Christian God. You see Atheist Jeanie Scott with her map of the country covered with pins indicating the thousands of places in the country were her organization is fighting legal battles to stomp out any and all attempts by anyone, who dares to challenge or question the complete authenticity of Darwinian evolution. Her organization is DEDICATED to stopping out the discussions before they get a chance to begin. You hear Atheist Dr. Will Provine, step clearly outside the box of science to describe life as meaningless, purposeless, godless and with no foundation for ethics... Dawkins, Myers and Provine all 3 share their de-conversion stories from Christianity to Atheism and all 3 give credit to Darwinism for their lost faith. This very same world view is being force fed to our children in the public schools, where science is clearly selling more than scientific ideas... it is selling a particular world view. That is dangerous, that is not science and this needs to be made public and stopped.

  WHY, would you want to encourage this any further... unless you are sympathetic to that same Atheistic world view. In which case you're no longer talking about science and you need to be EXPELLED as well.

• 1 year, 6 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Joshua,

  I'm glad to hear you're intrigued to see the film. You may want to go see it soon though... the press and lawsuits have destroyed the movies opportunity to be unbiasedly represented, which has strongly impacted ticket sales and it may not be in theaters much longer. It's a crime too because the message is very real, very important and effects us all.

• 1 year, 6 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Billusa99... Been there, done that. Gave up shrooms and pot around the same time my acne cleared up. But thanks for the advice.

• 1 year, 6 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Joshua,

  No doubt Michael Heller is a "stand alone" kind of guy... Priest, cosmologist and philosopher. Few if any of the "big names" of science who get the media's attention the most, could hold a candle to Mr. Heller. (R. Dawkins, PZ Myers, etc.) Unless I'm mistaken though, Michael did not win the "Nobel Peace Prize," but rather he won the Templeton Prize of 1.6 million dollars in March of 2008.

  The "John Templeton Foundation" is a privately owned organization that awards grants to encourage scientific discovery on the "big questions" in science and philosophy. That's how the NYT describes the foundation. The Templeton foundation also presented the makers of the Passion of the Christ with a $50,000 award for "Most Inspirational Movie." The Templeton foundation has also been strongly criticized by much of the scientific community as an extension of other right-wing causes, for it's linking of scientific and religious questions.

  The John Templeton foundation has in the past been a supporter of ID proponents. In 1999 it provided a grant to the Discovery Institute... the organization strongly criticized by many of the anti-ID scientists in the Expelled Film. Alas, the pressures of Big Science have influenced the Templeton foundation as well and the foundation released a statement in 2007 denouncing their support for ID. None the less the Foundation's views on the connections between religion and science has lead to great debate within the scientific community.

  So all that to say... I don't really see how Michael Heller's Templeton Prize does anything to undermine the premise of Expelled. If anything it shines more light on the mystery into why more people like Mr. Heller aren't encouraged rather than criticized and ostracized.

• 1 year, 6 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Ok, so let me see if I'm following you all... You guys will contemplate stories such as mushrooms being remnants of antiquarian matter from aliens, that may have lead to the first belief in God but a scientist who looks at the code in a DNA strand and determines the mathematical equation necessary to create the first living molecule by chance is astronomically impossible and is therefore lead to theorize intelligent involvement, is ludicrous and non-scientific? And Richard Dawkins can admit he sees the signature of intelligence in nature but if he were to want to examine that further that would no longer be science... That would be philosophy and he'd have to leave the science room and go down the hall to the philosophy classroom and set up his equipment again to proceed with his studies legitimately. Am I following you correctly so far?

• 1 year, 6 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Billusa99: You misrepresent my words on every single point. Typical. I never implied Richard Dawkins lent credence to the movie other than when in the uncut interview with Ben Stein towards the end of the film, Richard clearly admits it's quite possible to see what he referred to as "the signature of intelligence in nature." That's quite a different thing from saying he lent credence to the movie. While twisting my words to refer back to Richard's' rant about how he was "tricked" into being in a "creationist movie" all one has to do is look at the well publicized letter that Mr. Dawkins first received, inviting him to take part in the movie. In that introductory letter, here is exactly the way the movie was described by the producers:

  "We are interested in asking you a number of questions about the disconnect/controversy that exists in America between Evolution, Creationism and the Intelligent Design movement."

  If you can prove this description misrepresents the core of Expelled, THEN you have a legitimate argument... HOWEVER... you cannot make such a claim so you should be ashamed for spreading lies and rumors. That description is EXACTLY what the movie is about and Mr. Dawkins makes a living at giving his opinion on this subject. He has no honest argument and neither do you.

  As for the name of the movie... Are you kidding me? Dawkins was first approached nearly 2 years before the film was released. SO WHAT if the name was changed later... do you have ANY idea how often movie titles change in this industry? Dawkins also signed a contract with the producers and in that contract it was clearly stated that the film name might change. You have no case here... No smoking gun or evidence of wrong doing. Just a smoke screen attempt to distract people from hearing the truth about the unscrupulous actions of an atheistic elite group who are distorting and highjacking science... and how they use "tools" like your self to do most of their propaganda spreading for them.

  Regarding my mentioning of the tribes... You completely misrepresented why I mentioned them to begin with. If you had read more carefully before you falsely twisted my words, you'd have seen that I was referring back to the statements by previous posters claiming that ID and Expelled are Christian propaganda. I was pointing out that Ben Stein is Jewish and that the majority of religions in the word believe in a creator and that even uninfluenced tribes believe in a "god" so clearly it would be impossible to label all who believe in an intelligent creator as Christians.

  Lastly with regard to your predictions of the movie... time will tell. I'm no psychic but apparently you think you are. I would not lay odds on your predictions though. It may take a while for this to spread as the Producers of Expelled are no financial match for the Hollywood marketing budgets but over time I would not be surprised to see this movie become a film of significant importance... maybe in the theaters or maybe later in the DVD release. This wouldn't be the first time a film gained it's greatest success after leaving the theaters. We'll see.

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Amen to that brother Rick... amen to that!

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Wikipedia definition for Susan: Noun gullibility (uncountable) The quality of readily believing information, truthful or otherwise, usually to an absurd extent.

  ...still laughing!

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Susan... you have GOT to be kidding me. You think a Wikipedia definition is without a doubt, unbiased???? A dictionary definition that lists the name of an organization like the Discovery institute??? Are you really convincing your self of this... because you are truthfully only kidding your self if you are... You do know that I can hop on there right now and alter that definition don't you? As can anyone who wants to.

  I can NOT stop laughing!!!!!!!!!!

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  I still stand by the explanation of ID that I've described... completely void of any religious aspect whatsoever. You can label it whatever you like Susan, but that won't change the actual definition.

  Apologies to Scott for the verbosity of my previous post.

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Where did anyone get the idea that ID or Expelled are about Christianity. I'm sure the Jewish Mr. Stein would be more than horrified to be referred to as a Christian.

  Second contradictory point about that statement is that the movie does not in any way represent any religion of any kind. It addresses the fact that there actually are only 2 world views with regard to the question of life's origin. 1) Organic, unguided, undirected evolution over billions of years. 2) Observance of evidence that suggests intelligent causation.

  Before anyone leaps to the digits on their keyboard frothing at the mouth to shred me to pieces for uttering such blasphemy, I would like to recommend again that you go see the movie so you can see for your self, Richard Dawkins, Oxford professor, author of "The God Delusion", renowned atheist and self proclaimed hater of all religion and most ardent denier of a deity of any kind, proclaimed in his own words that signs of an intelligent signature are apparent in nature. Of course Dr. Dawkins gave credit to aliens for that signature, but he admits to observing what he described in his own words as, EVIDENCE OF AN INTELLIGENT SIGNATURE IN NATURE.

  ID simply says... "Hey we see it too! Let's discuss, compare it and study it right along with evolution, the only other viable possibility we know of today? Why would any intelligent person want to EXPELL the second of only two options we have to consider, before proof has been discovered one way or the other. Maybe the two possibilities are actually compatible and related in some way. Maybe by opening the doors rather than closing them we can advance in our awareness to life's origin.

  It's a thought anyway. Besides, simply acknowledging intelligent causation in the origin of life does not in any way shape or form, commit one to any one particular religion. That is a ludicrous notion to say the least. Recognizing intelligence in our origins is only the beginning. How one perceives and or interprets that source of intelligence is what one would then interpret as religion. They are not one in the same thing at all. I have no idea how many religions exist in the world but I think I would be safe to guess that the majority of them believe in some form of a deity. Tribes have been discovered in remote parts of the world that had never been exposed to any outside influences, who had established without influence, a deep seeded belief in some form of superior being. Does that make them Christian by default?

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Jeremy, I suppose you could be correct and I'm mistaken... If so I would gladly stand corrected. But DC's second half of that same paragraph makes it really hard for me to believe that:

  "Do all attendees get such warm welcomes at your rabies meetings?"

  I don't know... sounds like it's dripping with sarcasm to me...

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Andrew... see it's guys like DC that I ran into all over the place that put the "crook in my giblets" for days before coming to this site. It's guys like DC that created the need for a movie like Expelled, (In my opinion). Lucky for your group it sounds like DC will not be attending the Dallas Philosopher's Forum.

  DC wrote: "I see you are clearly open to all points of view and areas of discussion."

  If I'm not mistaken that was "sarcasm," right? Funny listening to a guy trashing a film he admittedly will never watch, implying someone else is not open to other points of view. :Interesting: (The bracketed semi colons are just for you DC.)

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Andrew, I live in Seattle which is one obstacle for me and I run a business that won't allow me to get away too often. The second reason I wouldn't bother with a debate like that is because it will eventually turn to hard core scientific discussion that I am not qualified to discuss in enough detail. I have only enough understanding to hear both arguments and like a juror in a courtroom, I see enough evidence to vote guilty for the accused who from my perspective have highjacked science, not for science sake but for a world view. I can only hope someone will be there to stand up for that viewpoint. I started off nasty in this column because in just about every other blog I've read those opposing the movie are extremely nasty in the manner in which they criticize alternate views. I've developed an extremely defensive posture because I grew tired of being labeled an ignorant, narrow minded creationist. It took me a while and Alex's "spanking," to realize you folks in here are at least civil. I do applaud most of you for that. That's also why I've hung around longer than I probably should have. Cheers.

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  John says, "it pins its underlying premise on a basic misunderstanding of the nature of science."

  Move on, end of subject eh? Ok John. Although what you just said is actually the fallacy Darwinian elite science have been hiding behind for years and is a completely inaccurate, misguided, smoke screen intended to manipulate science towards a particular world view... there is no misunderstanding of the nature of science at all... Elegant smoke John, Elegant smoke.

  Your column. I'll move on.

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  P.S. I want to directly apologize for saying you suck as a writer... Because you clearly are talented with words. But that's all the more reason I'm disappointed in how you're using that gift.

  Regards.

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Ok John... What did you think about the suggestion made by many and in many different ways, that it's possible that world views are directing science rather than science directing world views? That question comes up a number of times in the film. I could never quote the movie accurately enough so I won't try yet for fear of my own inadequacies. But I'll promise you that I'll go back to see the film again and make some notes and get back to you.

  On another subject, what did you think about Steve Myers who talked about the fact that there are two possibilities for explaining the origin of life... One being unguided and organic evolution, the other being design. All admit no one knows the truth but currently science will only allow discussion about the unguided organic possibilities. The skies the limit for discussion on that side of the argument. Even mutating crystals or highly evolved aliens are acceptable. But the wall expels the only other option completely without a shred of credible evidence for ruling it out? You have to ask your self, why? Why would any scientist want to do that? When did science become so narrow minded as to rule out the only other probability to a problem they still haven't solved? That's not science. That sounds more like a religion... a faith based belief one is unwilling to budge from.

  There was the point in the film made that I.D. is simply creationism in costume but one professor defined I.D. as a "minimum commitment to the probability of detecting design in nature." That is the best attempt I can make of that quote... I'll double check that when I go again.

  The media is reporting that the stories in the film about the "punished" scientists are all fabricated and yet in the movie we see one university admit they fired a professor because of his affiliation to I.D. studies, two were caught in lies via emails or letters and the other universities refused to comment.

  Then there's the whole issue in the media about the movie claiming that Darwinism lead to the holocaust. The producers and Ben have been lambasted for that and yet in the movie, while they clearly show the obvious connections they also on more than one occasion clarify that they do not for a minute believe Darwinism is responsible for the atrocities but rather that Darwinism was one of the key components necessary to arrive at what history remembers as Nazi Germany. Ben clarified that alone in that tomb and Berlinsky clarifies it again in his office lounge chair. We never hear that part of the story in the media though.

  I could go on but I'm taking up too much room in your blog. The point I'm trying to make is that your review could have been really awesome and unique and stand alone had you reported the very uniqueness of this film. But instead you sound like all the rest. Conforming and fitting in never gets you anywhere in a life. Dare to take an opposing side for a change. All your media cohorts are trashing the movie. That's an easy act to follow.

  You ask your self why I choose to focus so much attention on your review with all the other media writers doing exactly what you're doing? Well... Because I met you once at a press conference John. Or I guess I should say I saw you and sat near you more like. We exchanged glances. You looked like a decent guy, laid back, non-conformist type... I'm disappointed you're taking the easy way out on this one. I really challenge you to go see the film again. Take another look at it. I'd be willing to bet second time around you'll hear some things you didn't hear the first time. The movie has a legitimate message. It needs at good and brave writer to promote it. Think about it. Ciao.

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  Andrew, I appreciate the invitation but am not qualified to debate the subject matter specifically. My field of study does not prepare me to do so but those that are involved in I.D. are willing and have been trying to be heard for years... This much I am aware of and this is the argument I have with the way the media, including John, have so casually and carelessly, reviewed this crucially important film in a way that jeopardizes any truly fair debate. As you were, I think suggesting your self... the issues are MUCH bigger than reviews. What's at stake is monumentally important. There are truly and honestly excellent points raised in Expelled that reviews such as John's don't even mention. All I hear is a mind already made up and a review intended to persuade, influence and impress. No matter what side of the argument, "wall" you may be on... to walk away from that film without hearing at least one worthing thing to write about, you clearly have to have a personal agenda and closed mind. THAT is what angers me... That is what I see as poor journalism. This IS too important of a matter to be treated with flippant disregard. You really want your debate to have meaning... Take another look at the movie and re-write your review with an unbiased opinion for either side. Set the stage for a truly meaningful open forum that might actually ignite further discussion and produce something genuinely beneficial for the world. There's a challenge for you. Regards.

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  I took your advice Mike... I did the google you suggested and found this review... I'd like to submit this to your readers as a fair and balanced rebuttal to John's perspective on the film.

  http://twilightslastgleaming.com/word...

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  xdavidwattsx writes: "Well, if your email blogs say it's good then it MUST be good. Sounds like the same "science" being sold in the film."

  Yea, that's right... must have been a fluke in the dozens of theaters on the coast. All the other theaters in the country had no applause, no laughter and no standing ovations I'm sure. It just so happens the ONLY theaters that happened in were the ones I heard about. Sounds like the same unlikely odds Darwinian Evolutionist sell their theories on...

• 1 year, 7 months ago
  javascript's comment on:

  Movie review: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

  You know what Alex... You're right. I have apparently read far too many reviews from the media trashing what I believe to be an incredibly important film that sheds light on a very, very real issue and I have all but lost my cool completely. In John's review above, he has taken every single point the movie worked hard to make and twisted it to belittle the importance of what the film makers are trying desperately to report... I have read about and known about these issues for years. I was elated to learn of this movie and have been following the process closely over the past year and the media has NEVER even given it a remote chance at being heard unbiasedly.

  As for the figures on the exit polls and where they came from, you wouldn't believe me if I told you any more then you believe the scientists in the movie who tried to tell you something very important. As for the blogs... you're all savy web people... Get outside the media mags and leftists groups and hear what real America is saying about the film. Make it easy on your self and start with the Expelled blog its self... Or go to a showing and watch and listen to the audience with an open mind. I'm on email blogs with with a couple dozen friends who've seen the movie in different theaters all up and down the West coast and we've all experienced the same thing... Roaring laughter, rousing applause and standing ovations. I honestly don't recall a movie I've been to where the audience applauded at the end. I would greatly admire a journalist brave enough to report what is really happening in the theaters playing Expelled. Of course... beware of the backlash you surely will receive from your own peers if you do.

  My apologies to you all for the moron and suck comments. Thanks to Alex I'll do my best to bite my tongue in the future.

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